hamza i am not against your views...but i have some queries .which i like you to solve for me...our local media showed that US helicopters attacked at least 2 hours...and yesterday i was reading an article that chief of the army staff suspends chain of command..
so my queries are.
1-In above articles , you were saying that they jammed our radar...why commanding officer/CO didn't took command at that instance..At such crucial posts near border areas CO had taken valor step of striking them down..rather following chain of commands. it could save the life of the brave sons of Pakistan..
2-secondly,i am little confused about army infrastructure , are their warfare equipments so unreliable...??
3-they attacked 2 hours at pakistani post in pak territory ,,,why there were no backup ???

Were Nato attacks on Pakistani posts deliberate? (Sochta Pakistan, 1 Dec 2011) - YouTube

Check this video.

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Fixed signs.

If one considers 26 dead bodies = ZERO PROOF, he must visit some psychiatrist who can deal him better. Such time often comes in life when sorrows become second nature of a person, we must be sympathetic with that poor soul.

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Fixed signs.

@Abdussamad Chaudhry:
I am going to watch the video. But before I do that, I want to advise you to reread my argument. I never said:

26 bodies= No proof

I said that there was no proof that Nato helicopters went inside Pak territory SPECIFICALLY TO ATTACK PAKISTANI CHECK POST. I am not questioning the deaths, I am questioning the intent!

If you can bring just 1 proof that it was intentional, I will accept it and shut my mouth (Pak army doesn't have proof how can you bring one?)


@Hamza Kahlon

Your are losing rationality. Your conviction is based on patriotism.

Let me clarify a few things:

1) I am not Anti-Pakistan, I just don't let my patriotism blind me.

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

2) It's media's responsibility to give news. US Army officially said it was looking for WMDs, so that's news that they ran. I am not saying all of their media is correct, but rejecting them all because they run news against your country?
Here are some of our country's records:
1)Pakistan banned BBC because it ran Secret Pakistan documentary just a few days back.
2)Pakistan blocked the "Zardari Shutup" video on youtube.
3)Pakistan blocked the Guardian video in which Pak Army was shown beating some people ruthlessly.

We aren't exact that holy.

No, I am not saying they gave green light to kill their own people. I am saying that they gave green light to kill the people at those coordinates because our army thought that there were no checkposts there.

Attack was at dawn. One couldn't see from a heli's height how the person was clad. And helis don't use common cameras, they use infrared cameras that have 2 tones of black and white.

Yeah and that's why 9620 civilians have died. They are so accurate that our army allows them at Shamsi base [/Sarcasm]


First get this straight : If our army were to say that it is going to attack Iraq for killing Taliban and searching WMD, media will run this news. It won't send its reporters before army to ascertain whether there are WMDs or Taliban there.
Second, yes there were no WMDs. But do you think that western media was silent about this issue? You will find all major western media agencies criticizing this war and America's atrocities, you will find this in Guardian, Times, Economist. There was even a big Hollywood movie about it Greenzone. I am not saying there media is holy and that they are never pressured. I am saying that you shouldn't reject as being completely wrong. To be honest, our country's media is no less biased.
Just an example:
Here's a speech given by Col. Tim Collins in start of Iraq war.

Just look at his humility. He withdrew from the war and criticized it himself later. Not all are wrong.

And just because Israeli Prime Minister said it was against Pakistan, doesn't mean you be xenophobic. Forget zionists, first fix your own country!

Chemguy really sorry to say but you are proving urself to be nothing more than a youtube junkie who is professing his love affair with america and its media literaly saying to it 'bas tum hi tu hooo'...

Seriously dont qoute me crap. My comments are totally based on logic and nothing else.
Trust me i have seen 10 times more movies than u. I must have seen 10 matt damon green zone type movies. Ive read more book than u.

Look at how much u 'feel' for the west and how ur describing an american soldiers 'humility' who i dont know wth is he doing on youtube without being punished,arrested, or court martialed or all three.
You dont even know who the heck is david ben gurion. Bhai saab, he is one of the Quaid's/founder of Israel and this is content of a speech he made being the first prime minister in 1948.
I hope but i bet u dont know crap bout Quaid,our founder Jinnah. Im sure as hell you dont know about george washington or john adams of america.

Stop with ur self contradictory and biased views. Oh yes u also think media only gives news lol. Kya baat ha yaar apki.

P.S. For some reason your strongly giving out an aura of a person born in the 90's. Correct me if im wrong

P.S.S. u want to youtube? Search a channel ' LibertyTruthJustice'... Yea thats western media for u with a twist. U know u need both sides of a picture to form a unbiased view. Highly recommended.
Good day

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My Lord! Vouchsafe me wisdom and unite me to the righteous [The Poets-26 Verse 83]

Ok here it is for u :
Check this out. You have a house. There is not much threat from insurgents at the top of mountain hence the logic of a checkpost. So u can easily survey a region. Also rule of warfare is the person who has the height advantage can easily destroy u like sitting ducks if ur enemy is below u.
So ur sleeping as u have no threat from enemy in the air. U have probably max bohat hogya tu 10 soldiers guarding while rest sleep. Then in come 2 gunship helicopters who fire at u continuously for 2hours. Reducing ur house to rubble. Killing everyone almost or injuring. Seriously no one wants to be attacked by gunship helicopters. So what valor yar. Soldiers are humans too, in this case heavily attacked that the top of the mountain is blackened.

Next bout communication. U think the communication equipment would have survived such an attack? Thats how communication broke down i guess. Even soldiers didnt know wats happening and whose attacking them and why is it attacking them. So imagine relaying info of this sort through the equipment middle of night. When u dont know somethin for sure urself ap ksi aur ko kya smjhao ge.

Yaar dekho. There are soooo many things so many aspects of all of this. Reality is..sad reality.. That had managed to scramble our air force and it engaged 2 generations advanced jets of us n nato....imagine yar it would have become a full fledge battle. Imagine the consequences of that battle. Imagine how many more casualties we wouldve suffered.jets costing billions of rupees. Declaring war. Yar..........there our so many aspects to even army leave politics. Reality really hurts.

There is no frikkin war on terrorism. I cant discuss whole geo strategic implications of usa's presence in this region. I DONT want to discuss how are army is inferior to usa and nato in a million ways. neither the army wants to discuss it with public.
Bhai keeping the morale of ur soldiers high after this tragic killing is the task. These are the soldiers who sacrifice their lives, social lives, family lives, to live on mountain tops and glaciers of our country. If u kill their morale to fight tu kya fight kerain ge.
Kher just leave this....these are few things people like chemguy will never get into their head.

Yes ofcourse, wisdom comes first than being bold and brave. Yes if Pak army wanted its airforce destroyed in one day it would scramble its jets to counter usa/nato air force. Risk and bear the consequences of confronting the super powers army. In this current situation we cant even afford confrontation with india leave USA. Why do u think usa is propping india up to become the power of this region. No not just for china, its there Plan B. Make pakistan weak enough or break it so it can be controlled by India.hence indias involvement in Afghan army training. And i tell u afghan people or army have no brotherly feelings for Pak. Same goes without saying bout our relations with Iran.
Bhai saab duniya badal gai ha, u and chemguy need to learn to start thinking out of the box. Get out of these delusional self made cocoons devoid of ground realities. No offence

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My Lord! Vouchsafe me wisdom and unite me to the righteous [The Poets-26 Verse 83]

I read this Tribune news. Government of Pakistan has denied this report that the US helicopters or commandos received shelling from Pakistani military posts. Its a common sense that Pakistan Army can not target the US choppers and commandos because the salala check post was only equipped with light weapons and there were senior officers present too. In past NATO also had committed such kind of unprovoked attacks. One I remember was on Frontier Corps security post and at that time NATO claimed that they were chasing the Taliban and they fired their hide out and not the FC check post. I personally think that there is double game going on by all the players. USA, NATO, Pakistan, Afghan Government they all are playing double game, no body trust each other and that is why the war-on-terror in Afghanistan is slipping away from the ISAF forces towards Taliban who were proved themselves as the best gorilla fighters of the World so far.

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A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that other throw at him. (David Brinkley)