The explanation given for verse 62 in Ma'ariful Qur'an by Mufti Muhammad Shafi (RA) is very good to understand the meaning of verse 2:62. I reproduce here the commentary from the English Version, Vol.1, pp.43-45.
Capeish?

Abdul Rehman,

First of all plz tell me Urdu of "Lewaney shaway day!
" ... perhaps you have used pashto ... which unfortunately I do not know.

So for you, this issue is pretty straight-forward....

I am copying urdu translation of verse 02:62 ... translation by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi.

"Ye haqiqi baat hai ke Musalman aur Yahudi aur Nasara aur Firqa-e-Saibeen (in sab mein) -- Jo shakhs yaqeen rakhta ho Allah Taala (ki zaat aur siffat) per aur roz-e-qiamat per aur kar-guzari achi kere - aise logon ke liye on ka haq-ul-khidmat bhi hai on ke perwardigar ke paas aur (wahan ja ker) kisi qism ka andesha bhi nahi on per aur na wo maghmoom hon ge."

Maulana Thanvi sahib has translated word "Amanu" ... as Musalman.

According to this translation those who are (i) Muslims, (ii) Jews, (iii) Christians and; (iv) Sabians ... such that who (i) believe in God, (ii) Believe in last day and (iii) do good deeds .... have been promised for (i) Reward by their Lord, (ii) freedom of Fear and; (iii) freedom of Grieve.

So in this post you are required to declare Maulana Thanvi sahib also as 100% wrong.

When you shall do it ... then I shall continue discussion with respect of your other points.

And plz dont worry because of my debate style... I am not fighting with you. But you should accept that these matters really require EXTREME care. You yourself have accepted that at first you came up with rhetoric. If you are taking responsibility of discussing these issues then better policy of course would be to avoid rhetorics. And also do not worry ... I am going to evaluate all your further points. But before submitting my reply regaring rest of points, I would like to see your opinion about Maulana Thanvi Sahib's translation ... i.e. whether you include him in my category (i.e. 100% wrong) or not.

Thanks!

__________________
Where is the SIGNATURE....????

This discussion is great but the difference between muslaman and momin is still not clear to me. Would someone be good enough to explain it in detail and in simple language please. Thanks .

An intimation regarding your rest of points.

I have gone through your all the points. You seem very good in copy-paste things but I had required EXACT to the point reply ... Your reply should be analytical ... Each and every point should have been properly defeated. So still waiting for exact to the point and 'analytical' type reply. You should prove that Such (i) Jews, (ii) Christians and (iii) Sabians who (i) believe in Allah, (ii) believe in last day, (iii) and do good deeds .. they .. (i) Shall NOT be given reward by Allah, (ii) they NEED to be afraid and; (iii) they SHALL be grieved.

I have gone through your all the points. None of them is properly defeating these points.

For example verses 2:4-5 are talking about Muslims and Disbelievers ... so it is not relevant. i.e. relevant would be that one which would be talking about 'believers' ... may be among 'Jews', 'Christians', or 'Sabians' ... such that these people must have belief in Allah, the last day and they must do good deeds.

Similarly verses 4:150-152 are also talking about 'disbelievers of Allah' ... the bracket of your presented translation which says "by believing in Allah and non-believing in Prophets" ... neither these words are included in original Quranic wording ... nor this bracket has been included by Maulana Shaukat Ali Thanvi. So this verse is also talking about 'disbelievers' of Allah.

Regarding verse 4:136

Consider following crucial words of this verse:

"and whosoever disbelieves in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away."

So this is also the case of 'disbelievers' of Allah.

About verse 4:162

if these people are categorized as non-Muslims, then still they can get Reward from Allah ... If they are Muslims ... which is more appropriate ... then obviously they shall take great reward.

At the most this verse is telling us another type of non-Muslims who can get reward... this 'another' category is those 'non-Muslims' ... who believe in Allah and Prophet (PBUH) both. The first category is obviously that one which has been described in verse 2:62 ...

Secondly this verse is not refusing any reward to non-Muslims (if it is really talking about non-Muslims) .... it is giving reward.

Regarding verses 3:85-91:

These verses are talking about those who 'disbelieved' after accepting belief. So these verses are also not relevant to verse 2:62

About 5:36

This verse is also talking about disbelievers.

Your rest of points are also not fully addressing to the points which you are required to defeat.

If you say that 'believer' term autometically includes belief in Prophet (PBUH) also ... then keep in mind that this term i.e. 'believe' ... has been used independent of belief in Prophet (PBUH) thats why you had to mention along with verses 2:4-5 that these verses are important because they are including belief in Allah and belief in Prophet (PBUH) both.

So plz come up with non-copy-paste, analytical reply .... Do not go to un-necessary details. Show that you are not only good rhetorian ... but have analytical skills also ... I shall accept only exact to the point reply ...

Thanks!

__________________
Where is the SIGNATURE....????

Brother Khurram!
Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA) is Murshid (spiritual guide) of Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (RA) who is the father of Maulana Mufti Muhammad Shafi (RA) -- the person whose tafseer I had quoted before. All of these scholars, in fact, all Sunni scholars adhere to the view that a Kafir (non-Muslim) will receive the torment of hellfire forever. You read Urdu translation for verse [2:62] by Maulana Ashraf sahib. Why not read his translation for the verses which I quoted??? You can also read his detailed tafseer Bayan-ul-Qur'an of verse 2:62 and you will come to know the same.
I ask you a simple question now. If I accept your interpretation of [2:62], where will you put the numerous other verses? What about the overwhelming number of ahadith (muttawatir) and sayings of the Prophet (SAW), Companions (RAA) and Successors (RA) ???

You also should understand by now that by accepting your interpretation, Usul-e-Tafseer are violated, because:-
(i) Contradictions are created within the Qur'an itself
(ii) You did not sought ahadith, sayings of Companions (RAA) & Successors (RA) before taking the verse at face value, according to Arabic language. Arabic language is the 5th source of tafseer. The 1st is the Quran itself; 2nd is hadith. 3rd is sayings of the Companions (RAA) & 4th is that of the Successors (RA). 6th i.e. the last source is deliberation & deduction.
You should have searched the 2nd, 3rd & 4th sources before interpreting the verse literally. All explanations, provisions & exceptions of any particular verse of the Quran are described by the Sunnah. Therefore, it is important not to interpret any verse in the light of our own opinion (Ra'y.)

EXAMPLE
Let me give you a simple example of why taking verses at face value is dangerous. The Quran says in Surah al-Maida:-

"And the male & female thief, cut off their hand..." [5:38]

Apparently, it seems from the verse that:-
(a) A thief if he/she has stolen even a single penny, his/her hand shall be amputated;
(b) If he/she is minor, his/her hand shall be amputated;
(c) If he/she is insane, his/her hand shall be amputated;
(d) Hand is to be cut off for stealing anything from anywhere;
etc etc...
All these inferences are wrong, because, if a thief has stolen less than the Nisab*, his/her hand cannot be amputated. Similarly, his/her hand cannot be cut if he/she is a minor or if he/she is insane. THIS IS PROVED FROM AHADITH.

* Approx. 4.457 g of gold or equivalent

Waiting for your respone...

@Clockwise

I posted an extract from a tafseer on Page 1 of this thread. Read it & if you still have problems, tell me.

Regards,
Abdul Rehman.

Abdul Rehman,

Thanks for the balanced reply this time.

Thanks for your pleasent views about Maulana Ashraf Thanvi Sahib.

First of all Maulana Ashraf Thanvi sahib's urdu translation categorically goes against your extreme point of view. Secondly I have seen all the verses which you have quoted, from Maulana Ashraf sahib's translation as well. I shall appreciate if you quote his detailed tafseer on this verse i.e. 02:62

You are still to show which of the Quranic verse/s clearly contradicts verse 2:62. I have seen all those verses which you have referred. Those are not addressing to the exact issue of verse 2:62. Same is the case with the Ahadith which you have quoted. Abdul Rehman bhai ... contradiction shall come if you possess extreme view regarding all the non-Muslims. If Quran is saying that even certain non-Muslims can have valid belief in (i) Allah and; (ii) Last day and well as they can perfom good deeds .... then it is un-necessary to consider these non-Muslims as Kaffirs. Quran is quite explanatory in this issue because all the necessary conditions have been specifically mentioned in verse 2:62.

I had generally discussed some of the verses which you quoted. You can discuss with me any particular verse which you consider most crucial for your opinion, in detail ... regarding its relevancy to the issue of verse 2:62.


I have explained the source of apparent contradictions. If you look at the matter with large hearted view ... i.e. by following the direction set by verse 2:62 i.e. by accepting that certain non-Muslims may not be 'kaffirs' also .... then you may not find any contradiction in Quran. And remember that if you insist on your opinion ... then only solution you have is to just twist the meanings of verse 2:62 with the view to avoid any contradiction. If you are not going to twist the meanings ... then at least you are going to ignore this very important verse ...


Well, I am strict to Usool-e-Tafseer also ... I shall go to 2nd and third source only if I do not find clarity and explanation in the first source. If second and third sources are giving further supporting guidline ... like which is the case with those matters which you have described in the examples, obviously I shall add it to my knowledge. But if second and third sources are contradicting the first source ... then I shall be having doubts in the authenticity ang genuineness of those second and third sources.

Thanks!

__________________
Where is the SIGNATURE....????

AOA Brothers

@ Brother Abdul Rehman
Very well bro. I am so happy to see your way of understanding the Quranic verses w.r.t Usul-ul-Tafseer. May Allah guide all of us to strict through this so that we all are in-line to what Quran teaches us. Ameen.
I remember something from Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips's book "Usul-ul-Tafseer" regarding this. He describes very beautifully these methods of interpreting Quranic verses (Usul-ul-Tafseer) as the natural way of interpretation through which Authenticity of Quran is preserved till now and Inshallah will remember till the end of time.

@ Brother Khurram
1. My first advice is to stay cool. You should think about your way of arguing or discussing with others. It seems AGRESSIVE to the reader.
I agree with Abdul Rehman that "Why are you treating me like an opponent or a lawyer? ". Perhaps this statement is the outcome of your agressive style may be.
2. Secondly, i am not happy to see some sort of insulting statements (dont mind) during your discussion like;
"You seem very good in copy-paste things". Personally I find no harm in copy paste if something is Authentic. Atleast what Abdul Rehman has qouted right from the start is "Authentic" reference.
You can explain Scientific Laws at your own but beleive me you cannot explain or interpret Quran by your own, unless and until you are aware of all the ULOOM of Quran. Let me explain my point of view from the following extract of Mufti Shafi Uthmani's article "An Introduction to the Science of Tafseer";

"......tafseer (exegesis or interpretation) of the noble Qur'an is an extremely delicate and difficult undertaking for which getting to know the Arabic language alone is not enough. In fact, it is necessary to have expertise in all related branches of knowledge. Therefore, scholars say that a mufassir or commentator of the Qur'an must have vast and deep knowledge of the syntax, etymology, rhetoric, and literature of the Arabic language, as well as, that of prophetic Traditions, principles governing jurisprudence and exegesis, doctrinal articles of belief and scholastics. The reason is that one cannot arrive at correct conclusions while explaining the Qur'an unless there be that adequacy in these fields of knowledge.
It is regrettable that a dangerous epidemic has overtaken Muslims lately whereby many people have started taking the sole reading ability of Arabic sufficient for the tafseer (interpretation) of the Qur'an. As a result, anyone who gets to read ordinary Arabic starts passing out opinions in the domain of Qur'anic exegesis. Rather, it has been noticed on occasions that people having just passable familiarity with the Arabic language, and who have yet to master their Arabic to perfection, take it upon themselves to engage in explaining the Qur'an following their whims, even going to the limit of finding faults with classical commentators. Bad come to worse, there are some subtle tyrants who would, by simply reading the translation, imagine that they have become scholars of the Qur'an, not even feeling shy of criticizing commentators of great stature.
It should be understood very clearly that this is a highly dangerous pattern of behaviour which, in matters of religion, leads to fatal straying. As regards secular arts and sciences, everyone can claim to understand that should a person simply learn the English language and go on to study books of medical science, he would not be acknowledged as a physician by any reasonable person any where in the world, and certainly not trustworthy enough to take care of somebody's life unless he has been educated and trained in a medical college. Therefore, having learnt English is not all one needs to become a doctor.
Similarly, should anyone knowing English hope to become an engineer just by reading through engineering books, it is clear that no sane person in this world would accept him as an engineer. The reason is that this technical expertise cannot be acquired simply by learning the English language. It would, rather, need a formal training in the discipline under the supervision and guidance of expert teachers. When these stringent requirements are inevitable in order to become a doctor or engineer, how can the learning of Arabic language alone become sufficient in matters relating to the Qur'an and Hadeeth? In every department of life, everyone knows and acts upon the principle that every art or science has its own particular method of learning and its own peculiar conditions. Unless these are fulfilled, the learner's opinion in given, arts and sciences will not be considered trustworthy. If that is so, how can the Qur'an and the Sunnah become so unclaimed a field of inquiry that there be no need to acquire any art or science in order to explain them, and anyone who so wishes starts passing out opinions in this matter?.

In the light of above, my simple question is "Can you please let us know your qualification in the fields of Islamic Studies ?". Please donot refer your knowledge or number of books studied. I'm specifically asking about any Official Degree or Training undertaken in field of Islamic Studies.

What Brother abdul Rehman has qouted is all from the greatest Scholars of Islam who are well known for their Tafseers and other work on Islam.

I would again liek to go with Abdul Rehman for stating the following;
"What about the overwhelming number of ahadith (muttawatir) and sayings of the Prophet (SAW), Companions (RAA) and Successors (RA) ???". Please comment on above statement of Abdul Rehman.

3. Explaining things with LOGIC is good but again you have to follow some USOOL. Bieng, what i would say, OVER-LOGICAL is again not good. Like i've seen in the post one of your statement which is reflecting OVER-LOGICAL way of yours.
"You are required to prove that those (i) Jews, (ii) Christians and; (iii) Sabians who (i) believe in Allah, (ii) the last day and; (iii) does good .... shall (i) not take any reward from their Lord, (ii) there is fear for them and; (iii) they shall grieve.
Remember that you are required to prove all the above mentioned points because only then you would justify that I was 100% wrong."

Frankly atleast to me it seems OVER-LOGICAL way of discussion. For the sake of argument, take the following verse;
"And the male & female thief, cut off their hand..." [5:38]

Suppose we follow the same LOGICAL method of interpreting the verses as yours, you have to prove with your LOGICAL style that (i) donot cut off hands (ii) of male thief & female thief.


In last i would like to share the following extract from Article by Dr. Norlain Dindang Mababaya.

Non-Muslims may perform good works as well, but what sets them apart from Muslims is No iman, or belief. The reason that the good works of the non-believers are worthless in the hereafter is because of their disbelief. Unless a person's iman or aqeedah is not correct, all his good deeds are worthless.

A.) Conditions by Which Good Deeds are Rewarded in Islâm

(Extract from Article by Dr. Norlain Dindang Mababaya)

Allâh bestows love on those who believe and work deeds of righteousness (Qur’an 19:96).

He I is the Rabb (Only Cherisher and Sustainer) of Grace, Abounding (Qur’an 57:29).

He I listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness and gives them an increase of His Bounty (42:26).

He grants the need of every creature (55:29).

His bounties are not closed to any one (17:20).

This is the reason why non-Muslims who desire and work for material prosperity, fame and other worldly needs in this world attain success in this temporary life. They receive Allâh’s reward for any righteous deed or virtuous act done in this world. If they desire happiness in this present world and work for it, Allâh grants them their needs. However, their rewards will only be temporary because they do not meet the following conditions by which good deeds are rewarded both in this present life and in the eternal life Hereafter:w

First is the belief in Tawhîd (Oneness of Allâh). Allâh says:
“...But if they had joined in worship others with Allâh, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.” (6:88)

“Say (O Muhammad): “I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is One God: whoever expects to meet His Rabb, let him work righteousness, and in the worship of his Rabb, admit no one as partner.” (18:110)

And indeed it has been revealed to you (O Muhammadr), as it was to those (Allâh’s Messengers) before you: "If you join others in worship with Allâh, (then) surely (all) your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers.” (39:65)

Second is Ikhlâs (Sincerity) to Allâh which means to do good deeds purely for the pleasure of Allâh and not out of self-conceit to seek appreciation or praise from people. Allâh and His Messenger r tell us:
“Say, ‘Verily, I am commanded to serve Allâh with sincere devotion.’” (39:14)

“Call then upon Allâh with sincere devotion to Him even though the Unbelievers may detest it.” (40:14)

All good deeds must be in accordance with the Qur’ân and the Sunnah. Allâh makes it clear:
“O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) and render not vain your deeds.” (47:33)

The third condition implies that we Muslims should refrain from committing Bid‘ah (innovation or fabrication in religion). We should know that Islâm is a perfect religion. It is not only complete, but applies to all generations at all times, under any circumstances. The Prophet r serves as the best example for all of us. He not only stresses the importance of knowing and holding on to the Qur’ân and Sunnah, but also warns us to avoid Bid‘ah (innovation or fabrication) in our religion.

Jâbir ibn ‘Abdullâh t narrated that Allâh’s Messenger r said, “The best speech is that embodied in the Book of Allâh, and the best guidance is the guidance given by Muhammad. The most evil affairs are their innovations; and every innovation is an error.” (Muslim 1885)

The three conditions by which good deeds are rewarded in Islâm imply that only those who sincerely accept and practice Islâm will have their rewards with Allâh in the Hereafter. Allâh stresses:

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islâm (submission to Allâh), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).” (3:85)

All of us should avoid committing hypocrisy. We should be careful to commit any of the following characteristics of a hypocrite:

For the guidance of the non-Muslims, they should open their hearts to Islâm so that whatever good deeds they do will not be in vain or futile. Allâh is ever just to all those who believe and follow Him:

Anas ibn Mâlik t narrated that Allâh’s Messenger (saw) said: “Verily, Allâh does not treat a believer unjustly in regard to his virtues. He would confer upon him (His blessings) in this world and would give him reward in the Hereafter. And as regards a non-believer, he would be made to taste the reward (of virtue in this world) what he has done for himself so much when it would be the Hereafter, he would find no virtue for which he should be rewarded.”
(Muslim 6739)

__________________
The Demand Of Faith Is To Bow Down After Hearing The Command. Faith Cannot Co-Exist With Ifs And Buts.

AUZUBILLAH-E-MIN-AS-SHAITAAN-IR-RAJEEM
BISMILLAH-IR-RAHMAN-IR-RAHEEM

Asalam-o-alaikum to all brothers!

@2STRAIN
Well said!

@Khuram
I don't have enough time pal to discuss things with you coz you are a person who can innovate as many interpretations as there are verses in the Quran! You are simply doing Tafseer bil Ra'y i.e. interpreting any verse in any fashion which suits you. Keep this hadith in your mind first:-

Narrated Jundub (RAA) that the Prophet (SAW) said: If anyone interprets the Book of Allah in the light of his own opinion, even if he is right, he has erred. [Sunan Abu Daw‘ud, Mishkat-ul-Masabih]

Even if I ignore this for a second, your interpretations are extremely poor. Your interpretations for the relevant verses lead to the view that those who deserve "reward" & have "no fear" wrt [2:62] are those who have "strayed far" [4:136], are the "labouring, weary" to be entered into the "hot hellfire" [88:1-5] and who shall be "one of the losers" in the hereafter [3:85], who "will wish that they were buried in the earth" on the Day of Qiyamah [4:42] and yet, they "shall not grieve" [2:62].
(Yeah! You are free to say that they will be dwelling in hell with fire-proof clothes to have no grief. You can interpret any verse in any way you choose.)

Just look how pathetic your interpretation is! It is all because you cannot accept the opposite view. I give you an important principle: Never read the Qur'an with a preconceived notion, looking just for things that support your view & distorting those that don't. Read the Qur'an with the intention of getting guided by Allah, so you can accept the message of the Qur'an, not that of your own nafs & intellect.

At this point, I will like to pose something back to you:-
plz dont worry because of my debate style... I am not fighting with you.

This is extremely revolting! You ask for "highly relevant" material. Let me put YOU in the hot seat.

Verse 38 of Surah al-Maida says:

"And the male & female thief, cut off their hand..." [5:38]

In view of all scholars, even pseudo-scholars, the hand of a minor is not to be amputated.
This is not mentioned in the verse, because, it lays down the "general principle" that all male & female thieves have to get their hand amputated. I will only accept "highly relevant" material like a verse stating that hand of a non-adult thief is not to be amputated. I will not accept irrelvant things.
You are needed to prove this to me soon! I AM WAITING! GO & HAVE A TASTE OF YOUR OWN "USUL-E-TAFSEER". YOU CAN SCAN AS MANY AS HADITH BOOKS AS ARE EXISTENT ON EARTH! BUT, ONLY "HIGHLY RELEVANT" MATERIAL IS ACCEPTABLE.

Coming back to my senses: the hadith which is quoted by Fuqaha in support of the above view (i.e. not amputating hand of non-adult) simply states that responsibility has been taken away from three persons viz. sleeping person, non-adult & insane. It does not speak of theft. You are required to quote "highly relevant" material in this regard. Do whatever you can or adopt the view of amputating hand of non-adult!

Idiot! Remove the brackets & see the remaining verse. Its still the same:-

"Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers saying, "We believe in some but reject others," and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment. And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between ANY of them, We shall give them their rewards, and Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [4:150-152]

In fact, you are stuck by your principle yourself, because, numerous verses simply use the word 'disbelieve' (Kufr). You yourself add the words "in Allah" to them! For example, the following verse:-

"Verily, those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews & Christians) and polytheists will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures." [98:6]

The Arabic of this verse, in the beginning, is: Innallazina Kafaro min Ahl-al-Kitabe wal Mushrikeena. The word Allah is not present in Arabic, so you yourself are stuck by your own principle.

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is case of disbelievers of: (i) Allah; (ii) His Angels; (iii) His Books (which includes Qur'an); (iv) His Messengers; (which include Muhammad SAW) and (v) The Last Day. NOT JUST ALLAH! CHEATER!

You also said regarding the verse 4:162 :-
Secondly this verse is not refusing any reward to non-Muslims (if it is really talking about non-Muslims) .... it is giving reward.[/quote]
Idiot! Only you know how a person can believe in Muhammad (SAW) and yet be a non-Muslim. May be you would say that such people are those who believe in him deep in their hearts. Then, it will turn the whole Islamic history upside down.
Why Muhammad (SAW) kept on asking his uncle Abu Talib to proclaim the Kalima before death, when he accepted his Prophethood in his heart.
In fact, was Allah (Nauzubillah) mad to keep on warning the Jews & Christians, when He (SWT) says in the Quran:-

"Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognize him (Muhammad SAW) as they recongize their sons." [2:146]

As for you connotation that this verse is not denying any reward to non-Muslims & that those who believe in Allah (SWT) & Last Day only - shall not grieve or fear, then this is still wrong. In fact, your interpretation is contradicting so many other verses, for example, verse [3:85].

Mister! See verse 85 again:-

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers." [3:85]

This verse uses the word "whosoever" (Ma'n) which includes everyone.

Then, keep in mind that the term is used independent of everything. Simply 'believe' or 'disbelieve'. You are moulding this into the meaning which you deem correct.
Also, I would like to remind you that you still haven't attended Mufti Muhammad Shafi's (RA) argument:-
I may not find contradiction only if I close my eyes on a few other verses, such as this one:-

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers." [3:85]
"Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers saying, "We believe in some but reject others," and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment." [4:150-151]

So, you have stuck to 2:62 only. Declaring it to be the direction set, general principle & everything else. I say the above verses are more clear & the below verse is even more detailed to be taken as a direction set:-

"Say: 'We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and the twelve sons of Jacob, and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted.' So if they (Ahl-e-Kitab) believe in the like of that which you believe, only then they are rightly guided." [2:136-137]

Perhaps, you are illogical, because, it is expected that you may say: "they are not rightly-guided, but, still they will not be tormented." So, if you make a detailed post consisting of mere rubbish, don't expect a reply from me.

Yeah yeah! I have seen your strictness. Innovating interpretations in whatever fashion you like is being "strict to Usool-e-Tafseer". I ask you to please quote even a single hadith in support of your interpretation of [2:62] if ye are right!

Enough... I have already spent a lot of time in writing this reply. I will not waste any more time if I find non-sense in your next reply.

@ STRAIN2

Thanks for your valuable advices. Quran is there for everyone to understand and to seek guidance out of it for living a valid meaningful life. But Quran is NOT as much difficult as some Mufti Hazrat present it to be. A reasonably educated person should have every right to read, understand and extract guidance from Quranic teachings. Some muftis realy want to monopolize the Quranic knowledge -- by imposing those conditions which are out of reach of a common educated person. If you try to look around the top governmental seats that relate to matters of interpreting shariah ... you shall find that there is hold and monopoly of certain families on such high governmental positions. Mufti Usmani family is also prominent in this respect.

Islam is not like Berhamaism where only Berhamans are supposed to be the sole possessors of all their religious knowledge. My duty was just to point out certain things. And I have pointed out those things before reasonably educated people. I had to adopt strict argumentative method because I was restricted ... to not to talk over matters relating to Quran.

Anyways, I understand that this is an Academic type forum ... So we should avoid talking on controversial issues. I accept all the recent valid points of brother Abdul Rehman. Because now I want to close down this debate ... because this is an Academic forum ... which is not meant for endless debates over controversial matters.

Thanks!

__________________
Where is the SIGNATURE....????

Asalam-o-alaikum

@Abdul Rehman
Again great work done. I appreciate. JazakAllah.

@KHURRAM
Its nice to know that you are open minded enough to accept valid points of others (which are again not self-generated but Authentic).

Let me clarify one more comonly present misconception of the UNDERSTANDING of Quran which you discussed and then i'm over.

I would again like to qoute beautiful extract of Mufti Shafi Uthmani's article "An Introduction to the Science of Tafseer;

Some people say that the Qur'an has itself stated that:: 'And surely We have made the Qur'an easy for the sake of good counsel.' And since the noble Qur'an is a simple book, its explanation hardly needs much of a support from any art or science. But this argument is terribly fallacious, which is, in itself, based on lack of intellect and plenty of superficiality. The fact is that the verses of the Qur'an are of two kinds. Firstly, there are the verses that offer general good counsel, relate lesson-oriented events and introduce subjects dealing with taking of warning and acting on sound advice. Examples of this are the mortality of the world, the accounts of Paradise and Hell, the discourses likely to create the fear of God and the concern for the Hereafter, and other very simple realities of life. Verses of this kind are undoubtedly easy and anyone who knows the Arabic language can benefit from their good counsel by understanding them.
It is in relation to teachings of this kind that, in the verse cited above, it was said that 'We have made them easy'. Hence, the word (for the sake of good counsel) in the verse itself is pointing out towards this meaning.
Contrary to this, the other kind consists of verses which include injunctions, laws, articles of faith and intellectual subjects, Understanding verses of this kind as they should be rightfully understood and deducing and formulating injunctions and rulings from them cannot be done by just any person unless one has the insight and permeating reach into the Islamic areas of knowledge. This is why the noble Companions, whose mother-tongue was Arabic and they did not have to go anywhere to get trained into understanding Arabic, used to spend long periods of time in learning the Qur'an from the Holy Prophet . 'Allamah al-Suyuti has reported from Im-am Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Sulami that the Companions, who formally learned the Qur'an from the Holy Prophet , such as Sayyidna 'Uthman ibn 'Affan (RA) and 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (RA) and others, have told us that, after having learnt ten verses of the Qur'an from the Holy Prophet , they would not proceed on to the next verses until such time that they had covered all that was intellectually and practically involved in the light of these verses. They used to say:
We have learnt the Qur'an, knowledge and action all in one. (al-ltqan 2/176)
Consequently, as reported in Mu'atta of Imam Malik, Sayyidna 'Abdullah ibn Umar (RA) spent full eight years memorizing Surah al-Baqarah alone and, as in the Musnad of Ahmad, Sayyidna Anas' (RA), says that 'one of us who would learn Surah al-Baqarah and Surah al-Imran had his status enormously raised among us.'(Ibid)
Worth noticing is the fact that these noble Companions whose mother-tongue was Arabic, who had the highest degree of expertise in poetry and letters and who would have no difficulty in having very long qasidah poems perfectly committed to their memories with the least of effort, why would they need, just to memorize the Qur'an and understand its meanings, as long a time as eight years, and that too, for mastering one Surah? The only reason for this was that proficiency in the Arabic language was not enough to have a learning of the noble Qur'an and areas of knowledge bearing on it. In order to do that, it was also necessary to seek the benefit of the teaching and the company of the Holy Prophet . Now this is so obvious that the noble Companions inspite of having an expertise in the Arabic language and notwithstanding their being direct witnesses to the revelation, still needed the process of going through formal education at the feet of the blessed master in order to become the 'alims of the Qur'an, how then, after all these hundreds of years following the revelation of the Qur'an, just by cultivating an elementary familiarity with Arabic, or by simply looking at translations, can anyone claim to having become a commentator of the Qur'an? What a monsterous audacity and what a tragic joke with knowledge and religion! People who opt for such audacity should remember well that the Holy Prophet has said:
Whoever says anything about the Qur'an without knowledge, then he should make his abode in Hell. (Abu Dawud, as in al-ltqan, 2/179)
The Holy Prophet has also said:
Whoever talks about the Qur'an on the basis of his opinion, and even if says something true in it, still he made a mistake. (Abu Daw'ud, Nasa'i)

I hope that all of the above discussion (even hotter at some stages) will be fruitful for the other members and also to all of us.

May Allah guide us to the right path and make us able to understand His teachings well. Ameen.

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The Demand Of Faith Is To Bow Down After Hearing The Command. Faith Cannot Co-Exist With Ifs And Buts.