My Dear Respected Sister Farrah... Allah bless you with eternal happiness... and May lead all of us to the right path which leads to eternal success.

To your question that is Music Harram, I would simply putting here links for you and would suggest that read it. here is the link
Muttaqun OnLine - Music: According to Quran and Sunnah
ibnfarooq's Islam Page

I said earlier that it was very unfortunate and very sad event, we lost very precious lives... May Allah Rest them in Peace. They were like our sisters and nobody wants that his/her sisters dies in such a unfortunate incident.

We don't want to Judge or point fingers on anybody. But we are talking in general, Harram is Harram, it is not only for girls but also equally for boys. If you are committing a sin then is it very important to support it by somebody bad actions.

The other point is that the one who dies in Harram way can't be called Martyr, but the one who dies in Islamic way is not only called martyr but Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala will reward him/her, because of nature of death.

Please don't support your bad actions by somebody bad action, rather then it need to be condemned people here are supporting it for bad actions. To me all the girls are equally respected like my sisters. we are not pointing fingers at you. we don't say that boys are good, but it dosen't mean if somebody is bad, so we support our bad actions with their bad deeds.

Allah bless we all.

These days our society is behaving in a strange way !
I dont know it is the effect of Internet/mobile/cable tv or it is normal cycle of change. Halaal or haraam is so much mixed up that we find individual indulging in both activities at the same time. For example, i see girls chatting via mobile or net with their Male friends and when it comes the time of Prayers, they go and offer their prayers. Similarly, among males i see person fulfilling all religious obligations and at the same time doing business on interest base, hidding their income to save tax, taking "rishwat" and usurping the rights of others.

I am unable to understand this situation.

__________________
/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

Thanks a lot King Khan Jadoon,MAA LLM and Sohail for enhancing my knowledge.


After reading this,I assumed that "singing" wasn't prohibited but "some specific sort of singing" was prohibited.

It means "that singing" is prohibited which astrays one from the path of Allah,not the one which has nothing to do with vulgar lyrics or Allah's orders.

The words written in brackets are by the one who explained it so one can't be sure that Allah specifically pointed towards singing etc.Voice stands for many things,for many sources of befooling.

Idle talk can't be necessarily associated with "singing".Idle talk can be in plain words too like the everyother person is used to do these days.

Now,here comes instruments ! I do agree with it as it's clearly written about instruments.So it means "Drum beating,Band Baja on marriages is prohibited" hmmm ?


It means "halki dholki"or duff on marriages is allowed (as beat of dholki is just like duff) hmmm ?
So it can be associated with the hadees which I quoted in the very beginning.It means singing(not something vulgar) with light beat of duff is allowed.Right ?

Summing up the above references,I dare to declare that,

1)Only those songs are prohibited which astray one from the righteous path of Allah.
2)Only one instrument is allowed that is "duff" and I carefully declare that any that instrument is also allowed which sounds like duff.
3)One can sing in one's home for one's ownself(the words which are not against Islam)
4)Singing as a profession is prohibited if it is combined with instruments.Females are not allowed to sing for public as they are in general prohibited to show sweetness of voice to males.

Last but not least,If singing alone weren't allowed then no one would be allowed even to recite a Naat.

And now a days the ones who recite Naat with lots of instruments are doing "haraam act".I personally condemn the people who compose Naat on tones of Indian songs(most specifically or songs generally)

Hopefully my fellows would not take my arguments with "typical thinking".Please try to come out of the "lakeer ki faqeer" thinking and explanations.You know why ? Because the ones who explained religious point of views are normal human beings just like you and me.We should read their explanations,respect them BUT should not stick to them without using our own minds.

Allah sab pe reham karay.

__________________
Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!

Well,You are mixing "obligations" with other things.I agree that's wrong too but we shouldn't mix up both.
Namaz parhna farz hai,jo farz nae poora karay ga wo bhugtay ga.
chori kerna gunaah hai,jo karay ga saza paaye ga.

Namaz chornay ki saza alag,chori kernay ki saza alag.

ager aik chor Namaz parhta hai pabandi se tou us ki pakar namaz ki waja se nae ho gi.Us ki pakar ho gi us k gunah ki waja se jo k chori hai.

I personally know girls who are involved in such activities which are strongly condemned by Islam but they are very punctual for their prayers.

I didn't mean to appreciate the either of acts mentioned by you.I think we should not judge people by mixing "obligations with prohibited acts" because no one is perfect muslim.Perhaps Allah may forgive them for their any good act.We are not judges,Allah knows the best.


One more thing Sociologist,We have become "aadhay teeter aadhay batair" just because of mixture of social needs and religious restrictions.In today's world we can't hide from males when we want to survive in society for the economic reason.Today women have male colleagues and they can't abstain from talking to them.In fact,I myself is so confused.If we follow religion purely,we can't move with social demands and If we follow society purely,we can't be called as good muslims.Where to go ? What to do ?

I wrote on the same topic 2 days ago,I would like to share it,


ہم ایسے کبڑے ہیں جن کی پشت پہ مذہب کا بوجھ لدا ہوا ہے اور جن کے پیروں میں معاشرے کے کھڑاویں ہیں ۔ نہ تو ہم مذہب کا بوجھ اٹھانے کے اہل ہیں اور نہ ہی معاشرے کے کھڑاوں سے اپنے پیروں کو آزاد کر پاتے ہیں ۔نتیجتاً ہماری چال میں لڑکھڑاہٹ ہے ۔ ۔ ۔ اس کبڑے پن نے ہمیں کہیں کا نہیں چھوڑا ۔ ۔ہمارے پیچھے آنے والے ذہنی انتشار کا شکار ہیں ۔ ۔ ۔ہمارے بہکے بہکے قدموں کے نشاں ان کے کسی کام کے نہیں ۔ ۔ ہماری غیر متوازن چال نے ہمیں مضحکہ خیز بنا ڈالا ہے ۔ ۔ ۔ہم میں سے کسی نے کبھی مذہب کی بوری میں سے فالتو اور غیر ضروری سامان نکالنے کی کوشش ہی نہیں کی ۔ ۔ اور جس کسی نے بھی یہ کوشش کی ،اسے سولی چڑھا دیا گیا ۔ ۔ہم اپنے بزرگوں کے عطا کردہ انتہا پسند مذہبی ورثے میں تحریف کرنے کو تیار ہی نہیں ۔ ۔ہمیں کبڑا پن دل و جان سے قبول ہے ۔ ۔ ہم تو اپنے معاشرتی کھڑاویں تک بدلنے کو تیار نہیں ۔ ۔پاؤں لہو لہان ہیں لیکن لکیر سے ہٹنے کو تیار نہیں ۔ ۔ پیچھے آنے والے ہمارے قدموں کے نشانات کی جگہ خون کے قطرے دیکھ کے انگشت بدنداں ہیں ، مایوسی ان کے روم روم پہ چھا رہی ہے ،ذہنی خلفشار نے ان کی حسیات مفلوج کر ڈالی ہیں ۔ ۔ ۔ہم کبڑوں کے جانشین آدھے تیتر اور آدھے بٹیر ہیں ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔

کسی شاعر کیا خوب ہمارا نقشہ کھینچا ہے ،


مجھے کبڑا نہ سمجھو ،زندگی پر

میں ہنستے ہنستے دہرا ہو گیا ہوں

__________________
Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!

Prophet Mohammad PBUH says.

"They are beasts who resemble beasts character."

Now, one can judge how and what is nature of beasts. One should know our skin is same on account of Huzoor sain had prayed for us. But, we can't deny statement that They are beasts who resemble beasts character. So what are we internally? FOX or PIG?

How can a goat live in boat of wolves and dogs?

Love changes this nature but where is it ?

If room of rubies and pearls is fully open will a thief and greedy man avoid to take diamonds????????

I can't speak about MUSIC i love listen it, and shall listen to it, till last breath.

Na dozakh say kaam na jannat say Gharaz,
main wahan jaon jahan YAAR lay chalay.

I would like to share a poem of mine which i had written two years ago.

SHEEP
Printing footsteps going alone,
And almost sunny sun is gone.
Aroma of purity arises in wind,
Dogs smelled and chased behind.
Worn are the clothes of modesty,
Dogs’ shadows black and misty.
Oh! Innocent is like infant child,
And a Satan, in dogs of wild.
Sick sheep seeks the shelter,
But, lustful is each hunter.
Upon sheep dogs rushed,
Mirror of modesty crushed.
Lurched, sheep a lot wept,
Soul screamed, body crept.
Clothes of modesty are torn,
Dogs sucked blood and gone.
Flesh is cut and body red,
Dead! Innocent sheep, dead!
THE TRAVELLER

@ Farah Zafar

Nice to see it is not only me who is confused but there are also others who are confused and unable to understand the social situation we are living in.

__________________
/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sociologist PU .. These days our society is behaving in a strange way ! I dont know it is the effect of Internet/mobile/cable tv or it is normal cycle of change. Halaal or haraam is so much mixed up that we find individual indulging in both activities at the same time.

Well, in my view, its definitely the impact of cable/internet and more importantly lack of proper teaching, attention and grooming by parents and educational institutions, and the most important point is that we a very unfortunately considered Deen as a secondary matter. With a planned scheme, the Deen has been reduced to simple religion. Specially in Last decade or so, there are serious efforts to marginalize our Deen Islam and reduce it to mere religion. Religious people are portrayed as less educated and less civilized, impression has been given that they are against society and social activities. And so on... so all this collectively resulted in our ptresent situation of society. Now, the most easy topic for all, even for a illiterate actor or actress is to talk on Deen. Inna lillahi Wa Inna Ilahee Rajioon.
Every Tom, dick and harry, tries to talk about Islamic issues and even passes his own judgement... As real Scholars and Aalims are made extremists/fundamentalists, so every one has become "Aalim". That is a major factor in our disaster.

Quote:

Among males i see person fulfilling all religious obligations and at the same time doing business on interest base, hidding their income to save tax, taking "rishwat" and usurping the rights of others.

Well, with utmost respect, at present matter of Tax is different from the sins you mentioned. (Anyhow, that needs detail, so leave it).

Quote:

Now,here comes instruments ! I do agree with it as it's clearly written about instruments.So it means "Drum beating,Band Baja on marriages is prohibited" hmmm ?

Is there any doubt? yes they are nor allowed sister!

Quote:

It means "halki dholki"or duff on marriages is allowed (as beat of dholki is just like duff) hmmm?

Here comes the problem, sister, you yourself pass a judgement that Halki Dholki is ok, as it resembles with duff!
Sister, here is a simple but sincere advice to you, my self and all others, that one must never try to derive a rule of shariah, unless one is capable of, meaning that he possesses enough knowledge of Shariah. Ask any authentic Aalim and Scholar.
And if one is so inclined to derive rules then he must learn and study Islam and gain requisite knowledge for deriving rules.
Secondly, sister when duff is allowed it mean duff is allowed, besides there is no MAJBOORI, that Duff is not available, so one search for alternatives. So why we insist on Halki Dholki? I know we are groomed up in such an environment that now it is hard to resist the temptation of dholki and leave the un Islamic activities which are accepted socially. But Sister, fact remains that, Whenever you got the knowledge about some Rule of Shariah, adopt it.

Quote:

It means singing(not something vulgar) with light beat of duff is allowed.Right ?

Sister, obviously, in a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W. (Meaning of which is that), it is said that some young girls are to be sent to a wedding house to sing.(or as stated by Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W.) Some nice,decent, non vulgar, songs or nasheeds etc.
But here also some people mistakenly attribute these young girls to singing of women in wedding. Note, that those were young girls, and by young girls it is meant generally that girls before adulthood. So, young girls can sing in marriages etc.
Also, as far as singing poetry is concerned, it is allowed, if it is non vulgar, not un Islamic (e.g. having praise of opposite gender, etc.), because it is mentioned in Hadiths Books that, Before Ghazwaat (Battles), A person came forward and sings, or whatever you want to say that, anasheed (Naghmay) which motivates and boosts the morale of Mujahideen.
So, yes, singing, without musical instruments, without vulgarity, and keeping in view the separation of gender and its related matters, can be done.
AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST.

Quote:

2)Only one instrument is allowed that is "duff" and I carefully declare that any that instrument is also allowed which sounds like duff.

Strong objection sister, Kia Hazoor S.A.W.W. ya baat nai kah saktay thay k duff ya jo is ki tarah sound karen, wo allowed han. Jab nai kaha to Genral rule stands that Musical instruments are prohibited, and exception is only Duff. And as per rule of Fiqh, Qiyas (Analogy) cannot be based on exception. Sister.

Sister, this is why I strongly urge and advise that we should not made rule by ourselves unless we possess the requisite knowledge. Because, see you unintentionally broke the rule, in an attempt to derive rule. And this is at small level, later it can lead a person far away from the right path, and he/she keeps insisting in his rightness unknowingly.

Quote:

Last but not least,If singing alone weren't allowed then no one would be allowed even to recite a Naat.

, Sister, here we are discussing singing and in context of music, how you relate Naat with singing.

Singing generally mean uttering of poetry, but Naat is above these type of utterances. Naat is to praise our beloved Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W. So, don't co-relate these two with each other. Naat is allowed independent of the fact that singing is allowed or not.

Quote:

And now a days the ones who recite Naat with lots of instruments are doing "haraam act". I personally condemn the people who compose Naat on tones of Indian songs(most specifically or songs generally)

Well, in my opinion, those who do that are committing sin, and in fact in many instances they are even violating the same teachings of our Prophet S.A.W.W. whom they were praising...and I strongly condemn that too.
Hazoor k Dor ma bhe naat Parrhi gai ha, but not in this manner, actually now it has become (MaazAllah) a commercial activity. MaazAllah.

Quote:

Hopefully my fellows would not take my arguments with "typical thinking".Please try to come out of the "lakeer ki faqeer" thinking and explanations.You know why ?

Well, agar typical thinking sa murad fundametalist hona ha respected sister to then I apologize, that is every Muslims pride. Stick to the fundamentals and we will succeed.
Secondly, Lakeer kay Faqeer, wali baat thek nai, Islam urges everyone to learn, study and contribute by knowledge for the benefit of the mankind, but is ka kia karaen ka, log Ilm to Hasil kartay nai, or har aera, ghaera, ... shuru ho jata ha Islam pa baat karnay. Even now days, the people who should be condemned about their activities, talk about Islam on TV.
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilahi Rajioon.

Quote:

Because the ones who explained religious point of views are normal human beings just like you and me.We should read their explanations,respect them BUT should not stick to them without using our own minds.

Yes, those learned scholars who elaborated and put light on Islamic Teachings are no doubt just like us, I agree, but there is a big difference in them and us, they studied Deen for for decades and we have not even studied properly even a few years.
Secondly, agree that we should respect them and their teachings and use our minds too, but when our minds are ready and able to be used.
Our Mothers, doesn't ask their daughters to cook straight away Shab Daeg or Nihari or Haleem, but gradually after training they learn, same is that parents don't allow us to drive car in our first try on the motorway/highway, rather we need to learn first and then use our skills to.
So, Islam encourages everyone to contribute in the field of knowledge but after learning, study or "training".

Quote:

Allah sab pe reham karay.

Ameen. Jazakillah.

Quote:

I didn't mean to appreciate the either of acts mentioned by you.I think we should not judge people by mixing "obligations with prohibited acts" because no one is perfect muslim. Perhaps Allah may forgive them for their any good act.We are not judges,Allah knows the best.

Yes, Indeed Only Allah SWT has the power to forgive a person for his sins.
But I think that phenomenon that no one should be condemned for his wrongs comes in handy when some one mistakenly commits some wrong, we should quietly advise him, but when one keeps committing wrongs and insists on them, then he should be advised to let that sin or bad habit go. If he still continue that, then he should be condemned at least. Because if we let him go un-condemned, then in fact we are letting go that sin or bad habit un-condemned. Which is dangerous for the society as a whole. Just for example, take the case of corrupt man, if he is not condemned and stopped initially, he will carry on, carry on and carry on and might one day become our president.
So,
whoever sees a wrong should try to stop it by hand, if not possible, then condemn the wrong by mouth, and even that cannot be done then consider it a wrong in your heart, and that is the last level of E'man (faith).
[Meaning of a Hadith]

Quote:

One more thing Sociologist,We have become "aadhay teeter aadhay batair" just because of mixture of social needs and religious restrictions.In today's world we can't hide from males when we want to survive in society for the economic reason.Today women have male colleagues and they can't abstain from talking to them.In fact,I myself is so confused.If we follow religion purely,we can't move with social demands and If we follow society purely,we can't be called as good muslims.Where to go ? What to do ?

Sister, first of all Seeks Allah SWT, help sincerely, he will surely guide you to the right path and your confusion will be gone very soon.
Secondly, you are right that many people are confused about to do and what not to do, as you expressed.


The answer and solution to this very difficult question is very simple, and it is Prioritize

What is your Priority, whether Islam is your priority or society is, the society which never give you any benefit nor bring any harm to you.
Don't say that both, because, there is a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W. (meaning of which is) that no one be a true believer, unless he loves me, more than himself, his parents, his Wealth...
(Or as said by Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W.)
So, a true believer, loves Allah SWT and Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W.

Once you made this choice conscientiously, then all hurdles will be over for you respected sister.
No, Society, or economic problem can stand in your way. Islam provide ways, if you have to work in present un-Islamic environment, then one might work in veil, keeping distance from male coworkers, and there are solutions for otehr issues too. Nothing is Impossible if you make the right choice.

Also about what to do and where to go? I being you brother, would only say that no need to go anywhere, stay where ever you are, and try to struggle for a pure Islamic environment, Islamic Society and Islamic Pakistan, the solution of all problems.

Once that objective is achieved, you will see In Sha Allah, that our sisters will not have to worry about problems mentioned above and other problems the face. Our Brothers will not be worry about joblessness etc, and our Parents will not think that where there children are right now? and whether they are safe or not?


[QUOTE=zuhaib ahmed;395980]

Quote:

If room of rubies and pearls is fully open will a thief and greedy man avoid to take diamonds????????

Yes, he will avoid, it happened almost 1400 centuries ago, and even in 10 to 15 years back people have seen the blessings of the Islamic system in Afghanistan, when shopkeepers left there shops open and go for Prayers.
Ah.... What a beautiful system and time that was..!!!

Quote:

I can't speak about MUSIC i love listen it, and shall listen to it, till last breath.

Br
I pray that May Allah SWT open your heart for the truth and bless you with guidance towards the right path not before your death but very soon.

Quote:

Na dozakh say kaam na jannat say Gharaz, main wahan jaon jahan YAAR lay chalay.

"Yaar" here is used in Haqeeqi or Majazi meaning?
If Majazi, then What a bad verse (Shaer) it is.

It happened_ It was_ they left:

Keep on praying, Dear.

Bulleh Nach k yaar manaya.....
Rumi roo k ruks ker yaar manaya....
Gareeb nawaz nay qawali ko abad karaya...
Qalander nay to Damaaal ka tareka chalaya,
Na janay KHUDA nay Q unko itna berha makaam dilaya. ??

Kya RUMI paharroo'n per bansurry bajaya kerty thy.
Bulleh G! paonn main gungro pehan k nactay thy.
Gareeb nawaz Qawali ko khob gaya kerty thy,
Qalander ratoon tak damaal lagaya kerty thy...
Ager kufer kya unoo'n nay.......
Mazaaarain q hain un per?




If music gives you remembrance of your beloved (GOD) _ listen to it.
If music gives joy to your worldly wishes avoid it.




Above verse was by a SUFI
YAAR WAS USED FOR GOD!

RUMI!



Where Everything Is Music
Don't worry about saving these songs!
And if one of our instruments breaks,
it doesn't matter.

We have fallen into the place
where everything is music.

The strumming and the flute notes
rise into the atmosphere,
and even if the whole world's harp
should burn up, there will still be
hidden instruments playing.

So the candle flickers and goes out.
We have a piece of flint, and a spark.

This singing art is sea foam.
The graceful movements come from a pearl
somewhere on the ocean floor.

Poems reach up like spindrift and the edge
of driftwood along the beach, wanting!

They derive
from a slow and powerful root
that we can't see.

Stop the words now.
Open the window in the center of your chest,
and let the spirits fly in and out.

@MA LLM Thanks Bhai for such beautiful pieces of advice and for guiding me Well,I had left participating in "Discussions" just because of the behaviour of people that was sarcastic and impudent.They argue not to learn but just to win !

And here in this thread I loved discussion because I learned and "with respect".

Thanks all Keep up your civilized attitude

__________________
Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!