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  #1  
Old Wednesday, December 20, 2006
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Default Enlighted Moderation:a solution or another Problem

In the present scenario we are frequently witnessing the use & projection of the term "Enlighted Moderation"by the Govt side.The term literally means a moderate attitude that will take us out of the abyss of ignorance and extremism & will make us more knowledgeable.

In a country like Pakistan where corruption & poverty are strangling our nation,where unemployment & illiteracy are prevailing on a large scale,where inflation has snatched away the basic rights of people,where in distant villages,what to talk of medical facilities,even peramedics unavailable,where youth is straggling for they have less options,where still we are unable to meet the electricity needs of our people,this Enlighted moderation merely sounds an ampty slogan.The policy of moderation that is meant to combat and root out extremism gave birth to more extremists.

No doubt,after 9/11 muslims were targetted by west and are still a victim of their castigation,there has to be a policy or visoin that will remove their doubts.but inspite of countless efforts made on the basis of enlighted moderation by our gov to please them,west is still unsatisfied and says more efforst are required.
Now it is beyond my understanding what more they want: we helped them in the war against terrorism as much as we can and offered them our land against Taliban,many of our civil and army men were expired in Balochitan& our people suffered on their deaths and were in a state of confusion to whom they sympathise,women were given plums of offices just to prove how moderate we are,take U-turn on Kashmir and on other political fronts surprisingly on education also and modified our carriculam that is filled with objectionable stuff that can spoil innocent minds just to please the Rulers of our rulers.
But at the end we gained nothing practically.
then dont u think this moderation istead making us enlighted has made us more ignorant,ignorant of our true essence.
i would like to finish by saying islam is already a moderate religion that makes its true followers enlighted.instead of cajoling others we should have a vision that truely can project our viewpoits as well as that can bring us out of an awkward situation on internation level.
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  #2  
Old Wednesday, December 20, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saira butt

In a country like Pakistan where corruption & poverty are strangling our nation,where unemployment & illiteracy are prevailing on a large scale,where inflation has snatched away the basic rights of people,where in distant villages,what to talk of medical facilities,even peramedics unavailable,where youth is straggling for they have less options,where still we are unable to meet the electricity needs of our people,this Enlighted moderation merely sounds an ampty slogan.The policy of moderation that is meant to combat and root out extremism gave birth to more extremists.
You are right at your say that this term sounds an empty slogan. In my opinion moderate attitude of people depends largely on the way they think and behave. and thinking and behaviour of an individual is changeable. And such change require some 'material efforts'. In fact 'enlightened moderation' is a kind of social development of individuals. and social development cannot be attained until people do not have access over the satisfaction of basic needs,i.e. food, clothing, shelter, health and education.

Quote:
No doubt,after 9/11 muslims were targetted by west and are still a victim of their castigation,there has to be a policy or visoin that will remove their doubts.but inspite of countless efforts made on the basis of enlighted moderation by our gov to please them,west is still unsatisfied and says more efforst are required.
Yes west is doing so and they'll continue their efforts in this regard in future as well. This is because our media is far behind than that of western media. We are excelling in following mighty India in cultural race, but our efforts to shut the western media's mouth on groundless stories are not upto the mark.
So just announcing the moderate attitude is not a big deal, we must have to be very pragmatic and very logical in order to respond to the west.

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Now it is beyond my understanding what more they want: we helped them in the war against terrorism as much as we can and offered them our land against Taliban,many of our civil and army men were expired in Balochitan& our people suffered on their deaths and were in a state of confusion to whom they sympathise,women were given plums of offices just to prove how moderate we are,take U-turn on Kashmir and on other political fronts surprisingly on education also and modified our carriculam that is filled with objectionable stuff that can spoil innocent minds just to please the Rulers of our rulers.
This is not something exiquite we'd done. Allowing US to use the land against taliban was not an effort to show ourself moderate, instead it was an effort to save our terretory. US could have used Pakistan's land even if Pakistan won't have offered them vlounteerily. Secondly giving offices to the women is again not something to show ourselves moderate, coz Corporate sector prefers female staff as they are the best workers to work in a bossy environment, secondly they work on low payscales as compare to male members. thirdly much more clients are attracted by female staff. As far as women offices in public sector are concerned, it is the fact that our female population is more than that of male population, so it's an effort to bring equilibrium in macroeconomy, with reference to population and Human resources statistics.

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But at the end we gained nothing practically.
I couldn't get what this statement actually means. If it's to say that world's still calling us terrorists and still has objection on hijab, then i've explained you earlier that we'd done nothing practically or intellectually to manage such conflict. and if this statement means that we'd not gotten anything on economic or social grounds, then i must say that it's a wrong projection.

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then dont u think this moderation istead making us enlighted has made us more ignorant,ignorant of our true essence.
Not at all. We are still there where we'd been before this. And the change in status quo is possible only by being pragmatic and by spreading the exact essence on 'moderation' among common man.

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i would like to finish by saying islam is already a moderate religion that makes its true followers enlighted.instead of cajoling others we should have a vision that truely can project our viewpoits as well as that can bring us out of an awkward situation on internation level.
Agreed, Islam is already a moderate religion and there's no need of enlightenment in it. But we do need enlightenment on economic and political grounds. and we need to restructure our society on the basis of Islamic teachings as well. We also need to institutionalize the society.


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  #3  
Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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Well in my opine, government is already moderate to us. if they are strict in some regions then it is for our benefit because strictness should exist. Pakistani nation is a really strage one. I am not saying that they are that bad. I am also a part of it but i just want to say that government is treating with us the way we deserve to be treated.

It is an Islamic govermnet. Pakistan is an Islamic country. I am sure nothing is going against Islam over here. We r following the golden prionciples of Islam for our very existence. But the need of the day is to srenghten those principles and stick to them to bits.

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Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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Actually in our chequered history we have had variety of slogans for each decade.
50s--- destabilization
60s---industrialization
70s---nationalization
80s---islamization
90s---privatization
00s---enlightened moderation for globalization

Some of these are still haunting our society.
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  #5  
Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I M Possible
It is an Islamic govermnet. Pakistan is an Islamic country.
No doubt on Pakistan's being Islamic state, but i disagree on the form of government as an Islamic one. WOuld you lease explain an '
Islamic government' and then compare the present government with that particular form of government.

Quote:
I am sure nothing is going against Islam over here.
What about our present media, especially electronic. I just want to highlight the type of entertainment programs on different channels (which have got the permission to do so, from mighty government)

Quote:
We r following the golden prionciples of Islam for our very existence.
Please list those golden principles

Quote:
But the need of the day is to srenghten those principles and stick to them to bits.
If i come to know those principles, i'll have my say then


Regards,

@amjad

Very Good analysis
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Last edited by Amna; Thursday, February 14, 2013 at 02:31 AM.
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Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I M Possible
Well in my opine, government is already moderate to us. if they are strict in some regions then it is for our benefit because strictness should exist. Pakistani nation is a really strage one. I am not saying that they are that bad. I am also a part of it but i just want to say that government is treating with us the way we deserve to be treated..
Was the five years old child killed in Bajor agency incident deserved that treatment???

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It is an Islamic govermnet. Pakistan is an Islamic country. I am sure nothing is going against Islam over here. We r following the golden prionciples of Islam for our very existence.
I think you are refering towards Marithen race, dance & wine parties at the homes of high officials, no protest against the west for their propagenda against Hijab, changing the curriculum according to the wishes of USA...Are all these the golden prionciples of Islam which we are following???
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  #7  
Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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Well u people are coming up with a lot many statements and facts. No doubt, all of u are right on ur own behalves but lemme add to this.

Well it is up to time. Situation was worse when moderation was missing. Do we need to be moderate for the sake of over-exploitation? We really don't need to be moderate. Already government is very moderate in many sectors.

Golden principles of islam says that we should learn how to live in this world so we could save our next and the final world. Islam is a moderate religion that is an open fact. So, keeping in view this statement government is moderate. They need not to be more moderate.

Electronic media is doing well. They have to follow the order of the day. Well at times they cross the limits. They are also exploring our religion too. We do have Islamic channels. If someone really needs to be very Islamic, he may go for the islamic channels instead of mod scad channels. Choice is purely ours.

World is going towards deterioration at a fast pace. islam is a religion which always accepts positive changes with open arms that is why it is still alive and is doing at its best. no doubt, world is offering us negative things but our religion tells us that which one of the positive ones we ought to adapt.

There r misconceptions against Islamic sytems and its principles. We first need to contend ourself then others for the sake of pakistan and us.

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  #8  
Old Thursday, December 21, 2006
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@qurat & Amjad
u guys have come up with some great analysis.but qurat dont u think women r given preferences not on the basis of their abilites or competition but more to project the emancipation of women.here am referring to the incentive behind that.
muskan
agreed

@ imposible
well better to read this,
Education is a sensitive issue because it "trains the brains". Teachers and books play a pivotal role in the education and training of students.
However, Education Minister Lt-Gen (retired) Javed Ashraf Qazi, whose overt and covert capabilities had already brought Pakistan Railway to the zenith of progress, does not agree with this contention.

He thinks that the rotten curriculum having "fake" and "irrelevant" stories of our so-called heroes like Khalid bin Waleed, Mohammad bin Qasim, Tariq bin Zaid, Ahmed Shah Abdali and Tipu Sultan is the main hurdle in progress.

He claims that until and unless the incumbent curriculum is "modified", the nation cannot progress. Let's see what kind of changes he wants and has brought.
A book namely "Pakistan Ki Kahanian" (stories of Pakistan) introduced in the O level curriculum, and being taught in garrison academies.

It has been published by a prominent publishing house located in Urdu Bazaar, Lahore, and is in line with the reviewed curriculum of Cambridge University. However, no information about the consultation board or supervisor is mentioned in the book A random reading of the book suggests that whatever material was found from "here and there", has been collected and given a shape of a book. The writing style is abstract and complicated, which is difficult for an innocent brain to understand.

The book is filled with abusive and objectionable words and phrases. For instance, in a story called "Thal", the word 'Haramzada' (bastard) has been used on page 56. Similarly, words 'Haramzadi' on page 60, Kaminay (ignoble) on page 65 and 'Haramzada Kuttay' on page 66 have been used.

In another story "Kappas Ki Kahani" (story of cotton), phrases 'Uloo Key Pathay' (son of owl) on page 81 and 'Ashiq Hogai Hay Sali' on page 79 have been published.

Now, one can understand the moral future of the students and teachers who are learning and teaching such kind of sentences.
Sentences used in most of the stories are in defiance of our religious and cultural traditions. These sentences merely reflect the frustration of adults, which is impossible for the innocent children to understand. Such sentences will not merely spoil their innocent brains, but also make them adults before time.
Similarly, on page 66 of the book, it is stated, "when he came back, Nisho had his child in her tummy. No doubt he was a licit child".

Page 24 states "when she wore her clothes, he took her into the room, hugged her and started to laugh". In a story titled "Baghwan Das Darkhan", there is a line on page 36,In another story, 'Kaffara' (compensation),on page 45,In 'Mughal Saraya'on page132, On pages 169 and 170, story 'Mang',in several places vulgar sentences were being used which i cant even write.The education ministry has also not spared the syllabus of Pakistan Studies of the intermediate class. The Punjab Textbook Board has either removed or curtailed the events happened during 1927 to 1940. A common Pakistani knows that it was the most important era during Pakistan movement. During these 13 years, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah presented his famous 14 points in reply to the Nehru Report, Allama Iqbal gave his famous Allahabad address, Congress had refused to recognize Muslim League, two roundtable conferences were held, and the untoward attitude of the Congress ministers towards Muslims.

Following the removal of these 13 years from the syllabus, our future generations may ask that if Muslims and Hindus had cooperated with each other in 1916 Lucknow pact and Khilafat Movement, then what was wrong with Muslims who launched struggle for independence?
well thx to shumaila for providing me with this stuff.
and for impossible i can only say a nod to wise.
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Last edited by Amna; Thursday, February 14, 2013 at 02:28 AM.
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  #9  
Old Friday, December 22, 2006
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@I M Possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by I M Possible
Golden principles of islam says that we should learn how to live in this world so we could save our next and the final world.
I’m not sure which golden principle you are reffering. Please mention some proper reference of this quotation. Secondly your this quotation is incomplete and doesn’t fit on to defend the present government setup. It is because many projects of government are not following this golden rule. Let me explain this to a bit more clear extent.
• Exclusion of ‘Jihad’ from text books just to show the enlightened moderation.
• Permitting so called fashion channels, in order to promote ‘Pakistani Culture’ on international arena, but they are promoting ‘western culture’ in Pakistan. If you doubt on my say just have a look at Fashion T.V.
• Condemning madrassas, istead of establishing these on technological and scientific grounds.
• Case of Bajor Agency as mentioned by Muskan

These are very few examples; I’ll provide more on demand.

Quote:
Islam is a moderate religion that is an open fact. So, keeping in view this statement government is moderate. They need not to be more moderate.
Yes Islam is a moderate religion, but in the light of above statement government is not moderate, as government has done nothing to save our final world. Tell me will all the above acts lead towards some reward in the final world?

Quote:
Electronic media is doing well. They have to follow the order of the day. Well at times they cross the limits. They are also exploring our religion too. We do have Islamic channels. If someone really needs to be very Islamic, he may go for the islamic channels instead of mod scad channels. Choice is purely ours.
Ok Channels are doing well, I accept that they have done a lot to bring awareness among common man. You’ve accepted that they cross the limits some times, so just switch to the Islamic channel. I think you are quite enlightened person, just think for a moment is this the solution of the problem. Ok I can switch to another channel, you can but what about those people who are not enlightened as you are? Psychological evidiences have proven that children in ‘teens’ are attracted and fascinated much by T.V commercials, dramas, and entertainment programs. 50% of our population is below the age of 15 years. And in present circumstances, both the parents are working to make the both ends meet. And many times Many times iintentionally and most of the time un-intentionally children are overlooked in this regard, and they learn some negative behaviours from media. To bury the hatchet just list some programs of our channels which are aiming to bring some kind of development in the society and then just compare this list with those which are spreading negative behaviour in the society, you’lll get my point then.

Quote:

World is going towards deterioration at a fast pace. islam is a religion which always accepts positive changes with open arms that is why it is still alive and is doing at its best. no doubt, world is offering us negative things but our religion tells us that which one of the positive ones we ought to adapt.
You are right about Islam, but tell me till what extent this is being practiced??? ( I’ve raised similar question in the previous post but I don’t know why you didn’t think it better to answer, but I’ll highly appreciate if you answer it this time)

Quote:

There r misconceptions against Islamic sytems and its principles. We first need to contend ourself then others for the sake of pakistan and us.
These misconceptions can only be addressed on media,i.e print and electronic, plus we people can use international debate forums for this purpose as well. But question is that what government has done in this regard, except announcing enlightened moderation?


Regards,

@saira

Quote:
Originally Posted by saira butt
@qurat & Amjad
u guys have come up with some great analysis.but qurat dont u think women r given preferences not on the basis of their abilites or competition but more to project the emancipation of women.here am referring to the incentive behind that.
Yes dear I totally agree at this. I think you leafed through the part where by I mentioned that women are given preference on the basis of their efficiency, like they are more devoted to the work, they also bear bossy environment (This is infact one trait which present corporate sectors wants in men as well), and most important they work more on less salary, which gives economic efficiency to the firm. And certainly the greatest incentive of all this is, women do participate in national affairs and help to increase the GDP.

Regards,
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Last edited by Amna; Thursday, February 14, 2013 at 02:32 AM.
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  #10  
Old Friday, December 22, 2006
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Thanks Qurat and Saira; Both of you have been marvellous--
Well it is said that a culture always flows from the top to the bottom.It is evolved among the top strata of society and then it is adopted by the lower strata.So the culture of the ruling janta is being projected and promoted through electronic media and literature.Enlightenment is actually internal change of an individual which comes through education.It is not like Vitamin-D which is gained by exposing your body to the sun :more exposure more enlightenment.Enlightenment is the name of positive thinking.It is the name of co-existence that is 'to live and let live'. The government must provide education and basic amenities of life to the citizens instead of projecting so called soft image to appaese its mentors.
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