Please don’t mention. It’s always a pleasure to guide the spoilt youth. Feel free to seek guidance in future as well.

Certainly, leaving it to the reader. Please show me the bold speeches, a plural, of Khawaja Asif during the last few months. Link/reference, or anything you like, would do. I’m truly ignorant because I rarely follow news. Surely, now that you’ve wasted so much of your time telling me about some football club and some Messi guy, you would oblige me a little more?

Always happy to educate.

Splitting hair, are we? Okay. It must be someone else who dragged history by mentioning that military did not intervene in the last six years, and this is ‘yet another episode’ of politicians inviting army, that Nawaz took a categorical stance favoring a private channel (another ‘truthful’ statement, no doubt), and some drivel about angry speeches.

May be I’m just lying or something. Please correct me.

You're welcome. I was only returning the favor of pointing out what is flowery prose and what not. Glad it shook your indifference.

I see. Do you think it’s all right to raid the red zone, call for civil disobedience, resignation of PM, dissolution of parliament, and just about whatever hits your head, whenever you feel like it because, well, justice was not meted out? You must be all right with Baloch doing the same, I take it? Or Sindhis? Or perhaps the IDPs? Or… well, the list is actually pretty long. Because their rightful demands have not been met, right? Any second thoughts on this one?

I am grateful for the support, old man. We, the spoilt youth, had few other options. You, the older generation, Sir, bestowed upon us a system which did little to address the problems of the common folk. Getting spoilt was not a choice.



Extremely sorry to disappoint you, Sir. I am not going to bother. It was you who accused me of Lying, claiming "That" speech was made I don't when, even though I clearly did not single out a particular speech. I still don't know what speech were you talking about. Unless you enlighten me, am afraid I can not move any forward.

Oh, by the way, the football example was to make it easy for your highness to comprehend whatever I said. But I am not surprised you focused more on the names, and less on what that sentence was trying to convey.

I do believe we should leave it to the reader though. Your inability to grasp the meaning of a simple sentence would render providing another example redundant.

Putting one's own ideas and beliefs as if they were proven facts is called Propaganda, Sir.
But once again, let's go with this story.



You, Sir, are are speaking the truth for a change. But still failing to understand that the current crisis was a build up of the things I mentioned and you reiterated, including the parliamentary speeches and the Private Media group trial. "Last five years" was to let you know how the Army kept a safe distance in the People's Party's government, but was dragged into the limelight as soon as Your King, His Royal Highness, Shareef secured his throne.

Imran Khan bieng a pal of Musharraf does not relate to the current crises. Unless of course you propose another marvelous story. So yes, it was you who dragged the discussion back in history, Sir.



PTI has been asking for inquiry of mere 4 constituencies for over a year. If it was not to take its protest on the street, was there any guarantee that the Prime Minister would ever have conceded to the demand of forming an independent inquiry committee? He declined to do that for over 16 months. Justice delayed is Justice denied, like I said.

Democracy stands on the building blocks of free and fair elections. Taint that and you will bring the whole system down under it's own weight.
The determination if the elections were free and fair is the responsibility of the election commission. If the Commission fails to do so for over one and half year, it is an absolute failure of not only the election commission, but also the ruling party, and the Parliament, which failed to facilitate the commission so that it may have completed the inquiry.
You can't rule for over a year with allegations of rigging. The essence and spirit of democracy dictates that the Ruling party and the Parliament must ensure an independent inquiry when confronted with allegations, and do so as soon as possible. If it neither forms a commission nor shows any intention to address the problem, what other solution do you propose other than taking to the streets in both literal and figurative sense?

Moreover, the soul of democracy lies in precedent. The post of Prime Minister and the Cabinet, along with plethora of other rudimentary elements of democracy developed due to accident, and were strengthened due to precedent.
If the inquiry takes such a long time as it is taking now, the precedent we are setting for our future generations is plain and simple. Rig the elections, claim you are innocent, delay the inquiry process and enjoy the perks of being in power amid cries of rigging.


As far as PAT is concerned, If the Government refuses to lodge FIR for over 2 months even though Police slaughtered 14 citizens in broad day light and injured 80 others, what other solution do you propose for the aggrieved families?
This is tyranny. This is carnage. This is setting a deadly precedent. This is putting the stake right in the heart of democracy. And you reckon the people should not even take to the streets? Massacre is one thing. refusing to lodge the FIR after the massacre takes it to a whole new level.

For a comparison, A policeman was forced to resign after "aiming the gun at the protesters", let alone firing it, in Missouri.


If the demands of the Balochis are not met under this despotic rule cloaked in democratic veil, they have every right to protest. People of Balochistan have every right to demand bread and butter rather than Parliamentary supermacy. That, however, rarely happens because the people of Balochistan are exploited by their very own kith and kin, who promote their own interests after being elected to public offices.

I will be the first individual to Support the Balochis if and when they do come to the streets to snatch their rights, even though am not from Balochistan.
Ditto for any other group who fights for its rights, after being shown the door by the Parliament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan89 First of all, an attack on a journalist in which he ultimately survives and opening fire over more than 100 people, slaughtering 14 of them, is very different. Second, Geo has a history of maligning Armed Forces. I do not want to go into that.

I don't see any reason that why PM should resign & CM Punjab should not-- CM must step down.( on Moral grounds)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan89 Third, Geo did not provide conclusive proof, rather demanded the resignation of the DG ISI for over six hours for absolutely nothing.

This is it! Have IK ever adduced any substantive evidence against PM? It is well established rule of Natural Justice that Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If you think that A has killed B that doesn't make A a murderer unless he is convicted by court.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan89 Fourth, I do not second Imran Khan's demand of Prime Minister stepping down. I never said that. Where did you get that from?

If you really don't second him on his foolish demand, Why are you defending him here? Don't you know that is only bone of contention & reason for deadlock?

__________________
When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

Aww, I didn’t know you had such a sad story. But you can always count on old man’s support.

Just a roundabout way to say that no such ‘bold’ speeches targeting military exist, I take it? Well, that’s all right. Must be a slip of tongue.

But who’s the liar here? Of course, yours truly.

Thank you for letting us know it wasn’t me (the liar guy) but you (the truthful guy) who dragged history, again, in a rather beating-around-the-bush manner.

But allow me to point out the obvious that you conveniently managed to overlook once again. A lot of people think that Imran’s circus has been encouraged by the military to seek Musharraf’s exoneration. There is probably not much evidence for that, but that does make Musharraf very much relevant. So your saying that this is something not related to the current crisis does not match with actual situation. It’s also a coincidence, no doubt, that Musharraf himself lent full support to this ‘revolution’. The expression they have for this situation is ‘muddle-headed approach’ (hope this is not ‘florid bloated vocabulary’, by any chance?).

Also the ‘bold’ parliamentary speeches and PM’s ‘categorical’ support of a private channel is also truth and nothing but truth, because I just won’t let you share space in lying, right?

Spoken like a true prodigy. Put in simple words, you are all right with what I said, i.e. it’s fine to besiege parliament and supreme court and ask for the resignation of PM if faced by injustice. That it’s all right to do this all after the demands of FIR and electoral reforms have been met. I’m sorry, I didn’t know I was talking to someone favoring mob rule. A dead end, it seems.

And no doubt what PTI and PAT have been doing will set excellent precedent? Branding Supreme Court as corrupt (no evidence), branding the caretaker government in collusion with PMLN (again, no to insufficient evidence), accusing media of lending a hand in rigging (evidence? What’s that?), accusing ECP (please don’t ask for evidence), and calling for parliament’s dissolution because their mandate was stolen (evidence? Paltry at best), these are all excellent precedence for the future. I see. Muddle-headed was the term.

How very touching. But I’ll repeat it for 12343th time (since I’m a compulsive liar I thought of speaking one deliberately), maybe frame it and keep it with you as an antidote for short-term memory problems. The demand for FIR has been accepted. Several days ago. Summon your courage and come in the present, young man.

Thanks for clarification, once again, because I was under the impression that I’m talking to someone who favors constitutional means but it’s the mob rule you’re pushing. I must be mistaken. Well, I can’t really argue with that.

Today when TUQ and IK marchers of started moving towards PM house, govt ordered security forces to resist their advance, fired rubber bullets and tear gas. scenes in red zone have turned ugly, IG Islamabad has ordered mass arrest.

What consequences will it have for govt?

Let's leave that to the readers shall we?
You, meanwhile, can go back to the rudimentary problem. Did I refer to A particular speech or a bunch of speeches? Work on that. Please.





You yourself answered your own question. There is not much evidence for that. Thank you.
I ask you, however, is there any evidence whatsoever? Until you find that, It is not relevant to the current crisis.


Once again, for the umpteenth time, you failed to grasp the crux of the argument.
I will reiterate. The demands of PTI were only met after the siege of the parliament. And not before. Shareef's "Supreme indifference" to PTI demands when channeled through parliament, but submitting to the very same demands after the protests, is in itself a grave lesson for everyone. When the parliament fails to solve the problems, people take to the streets. I asked you what else do you propose they could have done once the Parliament failed? Don't tell me if what they did is right or wrong. Give me the alternative.

Similarly, the FIR was lodged after the siege of the Parliament. Not before. The very same parliament and parliamentarians paid little attention to what was state sponsored terrorism, and rather than ensuring and facilitating the FIR, were busy arguing if Qadri was sponsored by the invisible hand. It took two months and 15 days of protests to lodge an FIR against state sponsored Terrorism. Well done Parliament



The Parliament is there to safeguard the interests of the people. What PTI did was reaction to Parliament's inability to safeguard the very same interests. If Parliament had set the precedent of an independent inquiry swiftly, PTI would have never done what they did. The onus is on Parliament to make sure constitutional demands are taken care of. If they are not, then such precedents (What PTI did) become norm. Hope you understand. Because I am not going to restate.








I will, for your reading pleasure, restate what I said. I hope you get it this time. Hope is all I got.

When the Parliament shows the door to the people, it's the People's right to take to the streets. When the Parliament fails to safeguard the rights of the people, it's the people's right to take to the street.

What other solution do you propose when the Parliament has failed to do what it was supposed to do?

Straight fires again

What is the strategy of government . I am afraid , it will not work .

They are treating people like animals .

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''Sufficient for us is Allah , and He is the best Disposer of affairs" Al-Quran

I never said anything about the resignation. It is my opinion though that Chief Minister should resign over Model Town incident.



If you want to argue, be my guest. I can write a all day how PTI requested for an independent inquiry for the alleged rigging for over one and a half year.Pakistan People's Party and Jamat-e-Islami too accepted that the elections were rigged. Chaudary Nisar claimed in the parliament that over 50 to 60 thousand votes in every constituency were unverifiable.
Since you said something about court, What step did Nawaz Shareef take to form an independent inquiry into the grave matter? Would the courts automatically, through divine intervention, try and execute Shareef for rigging?


Since you picked up the conversation somewhat in the middle, you do not know how it all started. If you had gone a few pages back, you would have known that I did not defend Imran Khan.I wanted to clarify who was actually chomping on military boots.

I can support some of Imran Khan's demands, and reject some others. That is my personal preference. So let me ask you, where did you get this foolish idea that If I support Imran Khan, my support was unconditional?

They have been treating people like animals for more than a year am afraid.

I remember , when Musharraf attacked Jamiah Hafsa ,but he had a reason to take that step i.e strong information about the presence of weapons .

What this government is doing , attacking a peaceful protest .

Now , these are two different things . This government should be sued like none of the government before .

@Arsalan : It is not like what they have done in a year and half . What we can see now is the thing that any government think hundred times before doing it.In hundred of years , they get themselves into such a situation .

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''Sufficient for us is Allah , and He is the best Disposer of affairs" Al-Quran