@shallowwater...it is not offcourse wrong to have PA if more work is required..But if PA is solving all problems on behalf of ASP sahab then wat the point of having ASP and mostly PA's rn't qualified.But if u have any governmnt green card then u don't need to wait!!..On the other hand I have even seen few DIGs meeting every pplz in their offices...But they r very few!..The point I want to make is qualifying CSS doesn't make u angel..The reason y pplz join government services is to get support as law and order situation is worse, particularly in third world countries..Otherwise u will find many advertisements in UK,USA or Europe whr governent is convincing people to join govt services,the reason being law and order situation is better there..
Its not with CSP officiers only but don't understand why overall corruption has increased with literacy rate!!!

@ Naveed Badar Memon.

Well there is a certain manner in which a system works. Our system is working well in the given circumstances. People will still continue to join the civil services; even if few people resign. This is a reality and we must learn to live with the reality. No matter how difficult is the working environment but the people with manly hearts would be ever ready to serve their country.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

Indeed a nice topic has been set for discussion but I think it is more connected with one's moral values, I have seen my corrupt CSP officer and at the same time there are honest and upright as well. So we cannot paint everyone with the same brush and this argument that a CSP cannot remain honest and upright does not withstand as well.

The reknown writer Ashfaq Ahmed once said "Jissay Allah Ka Dar Nahi Wo Zamanay Sa Kia Sharminda Ho Ga".

Please bear in mind that its not only the CSP's who cannot stand upright and honest and their ego is melted down with political heads, its the every governmental department going through this trauma. Education department, health department etc. are such departments which does not come under the control of a CSP officer.

I personally think honesty and uprightness is needed for everyone and we must admit to the chinese adage that *The Firsh Rots From The Head*, so if the political heads are getting away with corruption through just a conciliation order NRO and voilating blatantly the supreme court of Pakistan, everyone considers it his right to aggrandize in every form.

But to every dark cloud there is a silver lining and if the coming youth start thinking positively and also jumped to bring a change, so our coming generation will see a more peacefull and bright Pakistan.

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Shiraz A.K
Assistant Commissioner (IRS)

@shallowwater Our system is working well in the given circumstances??
In given circumstances system working well???U mean no need to change anything..Then y we r begging from other nationals? The other point u make dat people will still serve in difficult situation..Then y half of Pakistanis r living abroad?Give every Pakistani open ticket for USA or UK then see how many remain in Pakistan. If we r more patriotic then USA or UK then our country is in crisis such as economic,social n political?I am still on my point that very few CSS aspirants join service to serve public.Its just power game,nothing else.Otherwise there r many other ways to serve public. I agree 1 needs hard work and then luck to qualify.Its same for every profession such as Doctors.Before doing MBBS mostly students say they want to help poor patients who can't afford but after completing MBBS,very few stuck to their commitment.
regards

@ Naveed Badar.

Brother you are not being practical. I mean if a doctor is taking care of patients then he is serving the people, whatelse he should do. Now if you say that a doctor or CSP should work for free then i think you are asking for too much. After so much efforts and hardwork if one does not live a decent life then what purpose is served by all that hardwork? A teacher has to be respected, a Superintendent of Police has to be feared. This is natural. I mean you must adopt a pragmatic approach.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

Well I think that all of you should read this report as it is quite relevant to this topic aswell...

http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/F...20Service.ashx

Moreover, I think that 5 things, if done by our dear politicians would be enough to remove these doubts about civil services or any other govt departments...

1. Raise salaries and incentives.. BPS17 should have at least 80000 pm
2. Improve Specialized training for officers and junior staff.
3. Make the Civil Services independent from political interference.
4. Accountability of Civil Services e.g High level professional committees which
would listen to hearings publicly on important issues just like in the US.
5. Media projection should be improved about the civil services.

@shallowwater
I like ur optimism bro, I really dont know if u have had the opportunity to see for yourself the red-tapism prevalent- but let me assure u of one thing. Once u do, people like u usually dont stick to it. They are dying to change careers after barely 2 years of service.

For the purpose of experience, I am sharing something here.

Last night I spoke to a 21 grade senior bureaucrat in my family. Although inducted in the Customs dept, he now has been relocated to Inland Revenue (Income tax). Something that ticked me in our candid discussion was that he said, "We bureaucrats dont have time to go through each and every file, and so we have to be good at skimming things and deciding on the go". I joked back "So is that why Pakistan's suffering so bad"? Suddenly his expression became serious and almost guiltily, he looked down and replied, "See nobody lets an honest man work here. Pretty soon, u'll be sidelined. You'll be asked to take political stances and sides. Once ur party leaves govt, the next one will penalize u." So my next question was, "Cant u remain honest despite all this"? He said, " Yes of course. But there are 2 kinds of corruption. Monetary and Ethical. The least u can do is not to indulge in monetary one. However ethical corruption comes with the package, for instance when ur asked to look the other way while ur superiors stuff themselves up. But u cant let a subordinate carry on with this hanky-panky right under ur nose- for in the end ur reputation will also get tainted because u allowed it to happen."

This man I just mentioned, is about to have a 1000 Sq. yard, gorgeous house completed in DHA, Karachi. His children study abroad at his expense. His wife boasts that she doesnt like wearing anything below 4 grand not to mention the perpetual 'bling effect'. His actual take-home salary is 125 grand, not including 2 cars, housing etc. Why does he have an URGE to earn more? Because he was from humble beginnings. When u suddenly give a 24 year old lad, an IMMENSE power when he first joins as an ASP for eg, IT WILL CORRUPT HIM. Changes in the system need to be made in order to minimize this.

Its a balancing act for sure. I am not agreeing with the above mentioned dialogue. I am just reproducing how a typical bureaucrat thinks like. U have to have enormous guts to face the odds and then the music too.

Well I just hope transfers arent a form of punishment for women CSP's. Can live within my meagre income. Just not in Kandiaro

I would endorse the difference between ethical and monetary corruption. I have also had the chance to interact with senior bureaucrats who are friends of my father. They said, here is the difference between actual 'corruption' which is so termed by the people, and ethical corruption, which is termed as 'flexibility' to survive in this environment. He said, "Being in police, I won't ask upfront money for recruitment of constables, (which by the way is a prevalent norm), but I might oblige a few person to get their favourites in."
Similarly I had the chance to interact with a senior DMG officer in the days of fertilizer crisis two years back when government was distributing it through controlled mechanism and there were reports in media that influential feudals appropriated entire stocks for themselves. He replied, here lies the balance: "I won't budge in to the pressure of local MNA to hand over the entire truck of fertilizer to him (which by the way was reported in many cases), but what I would tell him that I oblige your wish and you can take a half (sic illegally), but at least allow me to distribute the other half as transparently amongst the actual needy. So it is the closest to the win-win situation you can get"

My point here is that if at the very start, you start being stubborn on minor issues, this system won't allow you to progress upwards where you can actually make a change on larger scale. Don't think for today when you can be an AC, or an ASP. Think about tomorrow, thirty years from now, when you would be a Secretary and would be in a position to make meaningful changes, and make good policies, say of agriculture or irrigation. But in order to reach there, you have to wade through this dirt and filth. Learn to flow with the system but keeping yourself morally impeccable.

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Muhammad Ali Asghar

@ Aphrodite.

Well my father is a retired PCS officer, so i know very well how things work here. I dont see anything wrong in the way things are going on in Pakistan. If some one does not want to live a meaningful life so its better for him not to join civil service. As far as corruption is concerned it is just a perception. The meaning of corruption is different for every person. Civil service welcomes only those who are brave hearted.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

@ All.

Let me put it straight.
You know its very difficult to sleep without an A.C., its difficult to travel on public transport, its impossible to live in a small congested home, its further impossible to avoid keeping friends and good company, it gets more difficult to not to go to parties with friends, after you get married all these expenses got to be multiplied.

Here is a per month cost analysis for you.

Electricity bill. 8000 minimum,

Car maintainence and upkeep, 15000 min.

Food expenses, 12000 bare min.,

Entertainment, 10000,

Family commitments ( marriage, birthday parties etc) anything from 5000 upwards.

If you have a rented house then add another 15000.

If you are married then, add another 15000.

So all this adds upto 80,000 per month. Now tell me from where can a civil servant fulfill all these expenses? And these are not unnecessary expenditures and still they dont include the expenses of children and their school fees. The choice is yours. Think about it.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier