100% agreed with Sociologist. Rs.20000/- in addition to other facilities are enough to lead a good life. I am working under CSPs, and I think I would become a patient of blood-pressure. They not only do finanical corruption, but also abuse their official authority. Do not follow any rule/regulations. They are just signing machines whose pen only runs for personal relations or under political clout. Sitting in offices having gossips with friends etc, they dont take care of applicants/complainants majortiy of those comes from other districts/regions. Those who are honest, are OsSD or posted in offices. It seems they think they won't die, have buried their consciences.

Lol, nicely put-specially at the end.

Sociologist is right about the pay of a Grade 20 officer- it is more than 1 Lac.However the decisive factor of one's career is in the beginning. And when an officer sees such peanut shells being thrown at him, he is more likely to turn corrupt even if he had never planned it (some buggers plan it way ahead of the exam). But you know you cant even appraise the payscale without first cleansing the filthy system because for all I know- itll yet be another field day for already rich bureaucrats.
Sometimes I think,with what audacity do these Brioni-dressed bureaucrats n their 'blinged' trophy wives (not to forget that conspicuous large Hermes Birkin bag) pose for society magazines like Sunday! We really are a pathetic excuse for a nation.

]i think corruption cant be justified ...in any way..!civil service is far better than 70% poor of our country....civil servants are officers who have powers,facilities and much more....they are by no means muzloom awam of pakistan ,....Pakistan is a developing country...we have a malfunctioning ...corrupt system...i mean look at the rate of unemployment here...does anybody here still holds the right to beautiful luxurious dreams...."cuban cigars ,classy wine.." and all that...given the state of crises we are in...should this be are first priority ...raising pay-scale of civil servants...
No wonder this is age of materialism......n we must use euphemism ...call it practicality..or there maybe many other names...!
and somebody who says...'learn to live in your means'...ofcourse we can always call their approach as....theoretical,and what is that obsolete term...yes PATRIOTISM....n emotional.....

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let the beauty we love be what we do.......!

Most of us are doing CSS for what? Power and Exposure or Serving then GoP? Obviously most of the people will say we will serve our country, but they will not. When I sit alone and think about my country, I feel great love towards my beloved homeland but its not practical love, "Lafzo ki Muhabbat hai" . While doing corruption of some millions no one thinks he is abusing his homeland, he will just think of his kids and beautiful wife

When you don't do corruption someone will just say "everyone is doing this, why not you?"

Regards,

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'Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius!

very well written Saadat,i know you could have written much more but i think its more then enough to open up eyes the of those who still live in the fantasy world....kay sub set hai...

hamaray mulk mein kuch set nahein...we the budding bureaucacy is lost .....samjh nahein ata k yeh kiya ho raha hai....
jo log kehtay hain iss pay say aik achi zindagi guzari ja sakti hai.......kitabi batein lagti hain kitabon ki batain kitabon mein achi lagti hain...log nasehatain bohat kertay hain...bahar say picture aur nazar ati hai .....ander say kuch hoti hai....

he is not justifying corruption just telling the reality…
kuan say log bureaucracy mein arahay hain...middle class na....un kay parents k pass bank balance nahein hotay...thori bohat jama poonji say wo apnay kids ko parahtay hain....kisi ko CSS ka shauq ho jata hai...bohat jazbay say wo preparation kerta hai aur phir clear bhi ker laita hai...like Saadat said hard working ju hota hai....but uskay saray dreams ahista ahista shetter kerna shoru ker daitay hain....aur yeh sub kuch CSA say start hota hai ....kuch system ka part ban jatay hain...kuch system ko alvida keh daitay hain....kuch numb ho jatay hain un kay pass aur options nahein hoti

its just not about money,salary,status...its about overall mentality,atitudes,ethics and ecology of bureaucracy........it amazes me k yeh sirf bureaucracy ki baat nehein apnay ird girdh dekh lein ....beshour log hain...

I beg to differ here a little.

Firstly, the pay amount of 10,000 author mentioned was only basic and is only for the duration of academy. It is more than this amount once an officer graduates from CSA.

Secondly, the point he might have tried to convey i.e. lower emoluments and remunerations is right, but the manner he tried to do so was highly un-officer like. The desparation he showed only speaks of his grooming and vision. He could have been much milder and should have provided practical ways and solutions than lamblasting all others.

Thirdly, interestingly while mentioning avenues of corruption of all cadres, he skips Postal Group to whom he actually belongs himself. There were some serious allegations that he leveled against his fellow colleagues from other groups for instance a DMG officer taking bribe from patwaris or railway officer selling rails. I would suggest him to have a heart. I am sure, most of his batch mates would have been hurt by such uncalled for 'generalized and sweeping allegations'. If he wants to have his way, there are many opportunities of making an extra buck, rather many extra bucks, in Benazir Income Support Programme, being run through Postal services.

Fourthly, the gentleman, who belongs from 37th Commons, is either still an under-training probationer, or a very recent graduate. I wonder, if he is so frustrated within only 1 odd year, how would he cope up in days to come.

Fifthly, by expressing such opinions at a national level, setting aside all journalistic norms and manners, he has only blemished the sanctity of a Civil Service officer. One never sees such outright remarks from military officers, or even from other civil servants. I wonder, if Civil Service rules apply on him and if he has taken departmental permission to write such opinions.

And finally, did the author himself not know of all these aspects when he was about to opt for Civil Service? Was it a shock for him that his salary was not enough to support "elegant whiskeys or cuban cigars", as he mentions a desire for Civil Servants (which I prefer to disagree with)? Why is he complaining now? He could have stayed in private sector to earn far more.

Having said all this, I would agree to him in one aspect that lower salaries drive public officials to need based corruption. Some go one step ahead and indulge themselves in greed based corruption. While there are ways to check the first category, there are virtually none to prevent the latter, even in very advanced western societies. To quote you an example, the President of USA draws a salary of $400,000 per annum. Whereas the Singaporean primier draws a salary of $3,000,000 (3 million) per annum. Singaporean bureaucrats and public officials are the highest paid in the world, even much higher than their counterparts in private sector within Singapore. And thus, they have the least corrupt bureaucracy.

Even in Pakistan, before the 1974 Administrative Reforms, the public servants were paid according to an ever loose set of around 600+ payscales. This meant that individual officers or small group of officers within organizations/departments could be paid salaries according to their performance and sensitivities of the job role. But after the reforms, 22 payscales mean that if a pay has to be revised, it affects everyone (which can be a number between 100 to 1 million) in the same scale. Thus everyone gets a small penny as their share instead of a dollar. Those 95% people who do not work or do not want to work, get conveniently tagged to the 5% who drive their load.

__________________
Muhammad Ali Asghar

Salamoona !!


After reading the article, arguments and counter arguments Mr. Saadat has tried to convey the general feelings of a Civil Servant and this is first time I witnessed such article in editorial page for portraying the problems of Civil Servants. Early Miss. Aysha Siddiqa wrote a column which was not based on reality while the article of Mr. Saadat is based on his personal experience.

First it should be kept in mind that joining Civil Service is a matter of choice not force. People switch off from this service even during the climax of their service. see the famous CSPs of Pakistan.

Sometimes people unaware of the reality of the Civil Service are impressed by the luxurious life style of CSS serving officers which is based either on their rich background or adopting illegal means to earn money and elevate the status of life in society.

Perhaps the writer wants to express his dissatisfaction over the financial package of Civil Servants and their disparity among the groups of CSS. I think the write wants govt to financial satisfy the CSS officers legally then expect from them something extra ordinary.

I fully agree with the writer's views and some of the members here misunderstood his ideas. Suppose maximum pay of grade 17 is 30k in Civil Service at initial stage of a honest officer, can you compare it with a corrupt patwari whose minimum income per month must be 1 million?

The difference between the life style of a patwari and a highly qualified CSS officer would adversely affect the mind of a CSS honest officer. He will definitely write to portray his feelings. Just compare life styles:

Honest DMG (BPS -17) vs patwari, tehsildar - corrupt (B-05 & 16)
Honest AC Customs vs corrupt constable (B-05)
Honest Railways Officer vs Corrupt Ticket Checker

Is it a sin to be honest in this country deprived of all the basic necessities of life i.e. transport, house, marriage needs etc? Thumbs up Syed Saadat for touching this topic and I hope that govt will take steps to improve the life style of highly qualified officers who want to remain honest.

__________________
No matter how fast i run or how far i go it wont escape me, pain, misery, emptiness.

....age limit for css should be from 20-25...i think..n if govt. mistakenly heeds to plight of our civil service (for raising their pay)then they should also reform their selection process....they should complete selection in 6 months instead of 2 years....that would be really cool...
moreover ...i m really passionate for civil service...n i would live an honest life(if god helps me through the exam n i finally join it)......kyunkey character be koi cheez hota he...system ke roney rona isnt an answer to every question..because one thing is quite certain....that govt. isn't going to take any such revolutionary steps for the welfare of our dear dear civil service...they all have to live in the present circumstances ...whatever they are...n killing ones conscience should not be the solution to this problem..unfortunately this is what most of csp's are doing...thats sad....

__________________
let the beauty we love be what we do.......!

The gist of the writer's views is: "For bureaucrats, to be corrupt is not a matter of choice but of subsistence".


Islamabad, April 29, 2010 (PPI): The average Pakistani family had to spend Rs.8,583 on the purchase of daily-use items in the month of April 2010, according to the first Household Expenditure Pattern Study published by the Free and Fair Election Network (FAFEN). The fact that almost half of an average familys budget must be spent on basic commodities undermines the ability of a household to spend on other items that would enhance quality of living. FAFENs Household Expenditure Pattern Study is a survey of market prices of 70 food and non-food items each month. These items fall in 12 categories, namely: 1 food grains, 2 grams/pulses, 3 spices, 4 oil/oil seeds, 5 sweets, 6 vegetables/fruit/dry fruit, 7 milk/milk products, 8 meat/poultry, 9 prepared food,10 toiletries/laundry, 11 POL products/fuel/energy, and 12 medicine/medical facilities. The April 2010 FAFEN analysis is based on data received from 134 field survey forms from 85 districts of Pakistan, including 30 districts of Punjab, 22 districts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, 11 districts of Baluchistan, 19 districts of Sindh, 2 FATA Agencies, and the Islamabad Capital Territory.


The salary that our young civil servants ( the so called "cream of our nation" ) get is around Rs 20000.

Now i say : "For bureaucrats, to be corrupt is not a matter of Subsistence but of CHOICE."

1. The choice that they make that their kids should go to 20000-rupees per month schools and not the 50-rupees government schools.

2. The choice that they make that their family members should be treated in private hospitals and not dirty government hospitals.

3. The choice that they make that they should travel by government-provided car and not public transport.

What does the writer mean by "respectable salary"? 20000 is a very respectable salary if you use all those facilities that our government provides to the poor people of Pakistan.

But nahi aisa nahi ho sakta. Iss liye kay CSS jo kar liya hay! Bara teer jo maar liya hay! Civil servant koi asmaan say utarta hay jo iska life style Pakistan kay ghareeb awaam say acha hona chahiye? Civil Servant by definition means "noukar", "awaam ka noukar". $50 billion ki makrooz ghareeb awaam ka noukar keh raha hay kay 20-25 thousand may guzara nahi hota. salary increase ki jaye. why??? why??? why??? iss "cream" ka achaar dalna hay iss ghareeb awaam nay jo sirf aur sirf apni salary ka rouna rotay hain.

Psychological assesment may jab sentence completion may yeh poocha jata hay keh: Pakistan................... Tu hum log likhtay hain. Pakistan kay liye jaan hazir hay. And ab hamain 20000 salary kam lag rahi hay aur corruption ki justification kam salary ho gai. Zindabaad!!!!!!

500000000000000000000000 rupees salary kay sath har koi iss mulk ki khidmat karay ga, but character tu yeh hay kay bhookay pait iss mulk ki khidmat ki jaye without doing corruption.


The writer says "and if you do decide to finally take the plunge(civil services), dont have any doubts about being corrupt".

Sir, there are young people out there who dont have any doubts about being the loyal sons of this country.

Agar ghareeb awaam aik waqt ki routi khati hay tu civil servant ko bhi aik waqt ki routi khani chahiye.
Agar ghareeb awaam Gov hospitals may khwaar hoti hay tu civil servant ko bhi wahan hi khwaar hona chahiye apni treatment kay liye.
Agar ghareeb awaam public transport may dhakay khati hay tu civil servant ko bhi buss par latak kay office jana chahiye.
Agar ghareeb awaam "do dooni chaar" walay gov school may education hasil karti hay tu civil servant kay bachon ko bhi ussi school may parhna chahiye.

Just sirf aik bath samajh may nahi ati: jab iss mulk ki average family ki monthly expenditure 10000 rupees hay tu hamaray pyaaray ladlaay civil servant ki salary 20-25 thousands say bhi increase kyon karni chahi ye???? konsa logic hay yeh?????????????

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There will always be a You-like hole in my life.

Living within one`s means
From the Newspaper(DAWN)
23 January.

APROPOS of the article “I am corrupt, honestly!` (Jan 20) by Syed Saadat, I was stunned to read how the writer called civil servants corrupt. He makes a strange observation, that the civil servant has two choices: “either do not get married or don`t be honest”.

There is a third choice: to live with what you have. Unfortunately we have given up the virtue of `living within our means`. I was born to an army officer and remember travelling on a motorcycle with my parents.

Have we ever seen an AC or DC riding a motorcycle? My mother worked in a bank to supplement the family income. My father once told me that a DC was reported to have enrolled his wife and sister as lady heath workers only to draw their incomes.

I remember some civil servants` wives at the NDC told us that their children were studying abroad and that they also visited them during vacations. How did they manage that?

ZAMMARAH SARMAD AWAN
Karachi

__________________
There will always be a You-like hole in my life.