lol so because they were raping and killing, that justified our army to rape more innocent civilians and kill people in masses? Interesting thought .. And If you were a soldier back then, would you too have surrendered and begged for mercy? If yes, then don't you feel ashamed to call yourself a soldier?

So you mean that all the people they killed were rapers and looters? Our army was the biggest rapist and looter In the game, my friend. You are defending the undefendable. Maybe 10% of the killed were the looters but most of those who were killed and raped were innocent. You should consult some neutral sources and you will know more, even now If you ask some leading journalists of Pakistan or someone else who you think is worth trusting will NEVER deny the fact of the shameful acts done by our army in 1971.



CanditGuy -> Even If she agreed that her father was a traitor and even If The Indian general supported the mukti bahinis (which we all know the Indians did supported them) then what do you want to prove? Your OWN COUNTRY COMMISSION HAS SAID THAT THE ARMY RAPED and KILLED Everyone from civil servants to professionals and LOOTED and ROBBED people and that OUR GENERAL WAS A WOMANIZER .. THIS IS THE SAYINGS OF OUR OWN COMMISSION by those people who were given the job to investigate into the matter and I have already mentioned the Commission name .. why don't you look it up? Then Put that a side and go for neutral sources, they will put your commission report to shame as the figures of the raped and killed are much much more than in our report. Even a BIASED report couldn't defend them (HRC) and you are here trying to defend them? Do you think you have more knowledge and/or understanding of things than people at that time who were directly involved in stuff and were given the task of the findings :/

No,I'm here to present what I know,I'm not thrusting my views on anyone.Believing it or not is at your discretion.

Sallams:
please study the Game theory of International Relations you would find your answer and stop thinking like hopeless people of Pakistan, now its time that the table of Game theory is turning please analyze the words of Army chief, political leaders.

Read my post again and this time carefully. I did not write that our Army raped innocent women in reaction of Mukti Bahini's terrorists. I said that miscreants of Mukti Bahini raped bihari women and this is a proven fact. Now, Yes if I was a soldier at that time I would not like to surrender but the point is that loosing east Pakistan is not 100% Army's fault. Its the fault of our civil administration too. Why Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto went so ahead against Mujeeb-ur-Rehman? Did you ever try to think? Bhutto wan not an army officer, he was a politician but he also took very strong stand against Mujeeb-ur-Rehman. And the biggest thing which proved the conspiracy is the brutal murder of not only Mujeeb-ur-Rehman but his whole family except Sheikh Haseena Wajid. Bangladeshi army officers soon realized that this all conspiracy is not for the independence but to become an indian state as it would help India to have an strong access to Aasam and Naga Land as in those states there is a strong insurgency against Government of India.

@ mukt

No body in this world is neutral. This is a basic thing we all have to understand.

__________________
A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that other throw at him. (David Brinkley)

Army, if not 100%, is 99.99999% Responsible for the division of Pakistan into 2 pieces. Bhutto was not a soldier and therefore could have not fight on the borders, bhutto did not dropped his weapons, bhutto did not raped innocent women, bhutto did not killed innocent people in masses. Your statements are in direct contradiction with facts and figures. Even the pakistani officials do NOT disagree of the "KARNAMAS" of our army in 1971, The findings of our own COMMISSION declared our army general a womanizer and accused the army of raping, killing etc why don't you read up the report? Although the figures they mentioned were less than the International figures (by neutral sources) but even they couldn't deny the fact that our army did all these war crimes as it was such a big of truth

I 100% Agree. No one on earth is "NEUTRAL" as a whole, I'd like to say. If personal Interest is involved, 99.99999999999% will not be neutral but when I say neutral I mean and/or refer to those people who care less or will benefit nothing from lying and/or giving false facts and figures.

Bangalis If give figures or if indians, we can say that "OH NO THEY WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED AND HENCE CANNOT BE TRUSTED AND ITS A FALSE FIGURE" but in this case our own country COMMISSION has agreed and neutral sources are those who were not from bangladesh or india but who were writing on International affairs.

And Even Then If you argue that "OH NO STILL NO ONE IS NEUTRAL" then You mean to say that the system of "GAWAAH" and/or Witness should also be removed as per your explanation because a biased witness cannot carry weight in both Islamic and other Law(s). So You mean to say that God also did not know that there will be NO NEUTRAL people on earth who can testify as "witnesses" ? Think before you talk, Good sir

Mr mukt,Look,we all know that it was injustice on the part of pakistani Govt(and misdemeanors of Pakistani bureaucrats)that had called for all the events that followed,mukti bahni (who according to Sam Manekshaw were hindus)had started indiscriminate killing of pakistani bureaucrats and their families,Pakistan army had to reciprocated with the same stuff.That was unavoidable my brother.there was no other way out.what would have YOU done had you been in yahya khan's shoes?

And as for neutral spectators,If the effectees(bangalis i.e haseena wajid) and culprits(for us i.e Indian general) have confessed that Pakistan was clean(I don't say that,its them),is there any need of looking for what neutral spectators say?

You again are trying to defend army for no good reason. It was our army who created all the problems and added fuel to the fire by treating bangalis the way they did. You don't want to learn that's something else but everyone is saying the army was involved in all the war crimes, let alone the enemies, we ourselves have admitted it OFFICIALLY. Why don't you read that report I mentioned and you'll know more.

What would I have done? I would have NEVER surrendered and/or killed and/or Raped innocent civilians. I would have preferred to fight till death with the Indian army. When you say there was no way out makes me laugh, the way out as per your Intelligent way of thought became the reason of fall of bangla :/


1 - If we use your very own logic then one can also say that If the oppressors i.e Pakistan has itself claimed (VIA It's Official report) that the army was involved in war crimes and all the things I mentioned above, then why don't you believe it? The only answer you can give to this point is "Double Standards" lol

2 - Even If you ignore point 1, you still fail to understand that haseena wajid and Indian general are just 2 people. The bangali people were also directly effected then why do you ignore when they too say that The army was involved in all sort of war crimes and why do you Ignore the Indian authors as well who write that Pakistani army was involved in war crimes that includes but is not limited to raping, killing etc .. It's like a hundred thousand people saying something and you pick up only 2 from them and say "THESE 2 are RIGHT, THE OTHERS ARE WRONG WHATEVER THEY SAY" lol. The majority of the effectees are against your opinion so why do you quote only 2 people of your choice?

Lastly, I have not seen Haseena saying that Pak army never raped and/or killed anyone neither have I read about Indian general saying that we sent our ppl to do the rapes and pak army never did it (but even if they said so) then what about our own acceptance?

Haseena wajid is the prime minister of Bangladesh(representing her country) and Sam was the mastermind of Indian campaign(hence represents whole of India).You only understand binary logic hence you can't see more than two levels.Wish I had a binary to decimal converter cum inverter that could help you see more than 2 levels,and convert your logical low(0) to a logical high.haha..

I'm not defending anyone here,cuz meray chachay mamay nahin lagte wo.But I have a strong feeling now k aapka pura name mukti bahini hi hai.LOL!as pointed out by fellow god of war.

No offense..

If Sam Represents entire India than our General Represents Entire Pakistan (AS PER YOUR OWN LOGIC) and If that's the case then If Our General was accused of being a womanizer, not only by our official report but also by the enemies, then does that makes all Pakistanis womanizers? HAHAHAHAHAH

Just because She was PM does not necessarily means she will be right all the time. If you think that a "PM" truly represents his/her country then do you really think Gillani is representing us in a true sense? The people of bangal do represent their country and many of them have clearly stated what the truth is and also we (pakistanis) do know the truth as well.

Moreover, Kindly can you copy/paste (in context) about what exactly the Indian general said? I want to see If he really meant to say that "The rapes and killing were performed by us, pakistani army was completely innocent and we made them look like that" I seriously would like to read this

Binary to decimal conversion is easy, I will teach you If you want to learn but I guess that was only a statement meant to make fun of me so i will LOL.

Yai to Wakt Hi batayiga.

HAHAHA lol I seriously don't think you are from the grand children of yahya khan but that's just my opinion compared to thousands of others

No offense Either

He was only accused,Do you have any proof he was one?

Can't say in a true sense or false sense but he does.

I had read all that stuff long ago.I could only find that link which I have shared in my post(the one which carries the link).I'll try my level best to find his exact words for you.


Well,I know very well how to convert etc,but I don't have the necessary devices,Transistors,ICs(Gates and stuff) to assemble one such converter for you.


I would as soon commit suicide before being proven his grandchild.

I like and at times defend Army for I don't see any other department worth appreciation.I also know they don't have an immaculate record;they are the best of the worst lot.If some one could prove that they were the perpetrators of rapes and things like that.I would damn them more than any one else.