see, to me that all what is happening in Arab is just conspiracy, nothing else, same thing has been trying by some forces in this country but still they donot succeed in it.

bhai one of the things which I donot like of Mr. Musharraf's era is freeing media in the name of "freedom of expression", now you will have to decide whether Musharraf's era was democratic or dictatorial...

and as you said they are the two sides of same coin than whats the point in discussing all this, anyway to me these are not in any way same to each other...

than how media get freedom...?

First, to me this semi thing can never worked out in any field of life than how can it will be fruitful to run the whole country...

Second, democracy is the name of freedom and when you limit it in any manner, that started becoming dictatorship...

To me freedom of media is a by product of modern world. Musharraf is well known for trying to limit free media

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Many laws as certainly make bad men, as bad men make many laws. (Walter Savage Landor)

Democracy is the best form of govt. I've seen the representative of people i.e. Ministers, PM, CMs have enough powers and they have an upper hand on public servants i.e. CSPs, PCS Officers, Army etc and it is the essence of Democracy.

Don't be emotional after seeing temporary arrangements of dictators, they are just for the time being. Democracy is permanent and last for a reasonable time. It needs to be flourished and on track. Undue interference, lack of accountability and transparency made the youth alienated to this system.

Just leave the democracy on track, flourishing and uninterrupted, I will guarantee you a developed Pakistan.

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No matter how fast i run or how far i go it wont escape me, pain, misery, emptiness.

to me too it is an episode of a big game.but an interesting fact is that one of the factors that came to the aid of the arab uprising(in other words a conspiracy as is considered by you) was the suppression of massess.supression of their voices.in other words dictatorship.


bhai one of the things that i seriously liked in musharaf's era was freeing media.it was a blessing because before musharaf this pillar of democracy(yes democracy)was very weak in our country.credit should be given where it is due.and i dont have to decide whether musharaf's era was democratic or dictorial because we dont need to discuss and confuse ourselves in respect of established facts.

the term freedom of expression as used by west and freedom of media are two different things and should not be confused.

yes both democrats and dictators are aces in corruption etc but why i jumped into discussion was because some of the members were giving dictatorship preference over democracy.so i thought it necssary to present the opposite view as well.democracy may not be my concern but i am not letting dictatorship take the show.lol



semi thing may not work but then neither dictatorship is going to.moreover only the name is revealed i.e"semi tecnochratic democacy" but the details are still in the bag.dont jump to conclusion too early my friend.lol

and when we are talking about governing sytems then there are more pols available to us instead of just north and south.if we are to bring some changes in democracy to mend it in a way suitable to our environment or even to come up with a whole new sytem of governance then it does not in any case means that it is tilting towards dictatorship.

yes the moment we attach conditions etc with democracy it siezes to be a pure democracy.moreover it seizes to qualify the very definition of democracy in such cases.but then i never said that we should replace democracy with democracy.of course if we are to come up with a new system then it is to be anything except democracy.

lastly i think i should get over with this introducing new system theoratical thing cause it wont get me me anywhere.


although this is not the question at hand but still i am of the view that musharaf is responsible for this act.this was some of his good acts.but bhai jan if you are trying to justify dictatorship because of this act then you need to rethink because freeing the media cannot be a justification for dictatorship i.e a wrongful act

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Puppet,Slave,Lover

Baat yeh hai ke hamain na sardi pasand hai na garmi . agar yahan pe khilafat bhi qaim hui na to mujhe 99.9% yaqeen hai ke us ke khilaf bhi 99.9 "molvi" hee shor machayen ge, kiyoonke shariat bhi sab ne apni apni banayi hui hai .

jahan tak educated society kee baat hai to jo aaj developed democratic states hain woh koi hazrat aadam (as) ke dor se to parhi likhi paida nahin hui theen . un main aik shaur baidar hua, phir unhoon pe us pe amal kia aur aahista aahista sadiun ke evolution ke baad ab educated hue hain . hum log bus yeh chahte hain ke bani banai jannat mil jaaye aur us main doodh aur shahad kee nehrun main dubkian lagayen .

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Democracy is indispensable for survival of the State of Pakistyan but also true that we dont deserve democracy.WE start learning lie from ourtext books.Pakistan's has been ruled by military dictators for much of its existence.The havoc wreaked by dictators to the state defies count.I start from first marshal law

1-Ayub Khan

He toppled the Govt of Malik Feeroze Khan known who had the credit of annexing Gawadar with Pakistan that was first and Last example of any territory's annexation with Pakista. Afterwards , we only surrendered our land.

Before Ayub Khan though Pakistan was experiencing political instability , but high echelons of power were free from financial Corruption. When Sikandar Mirza was forced to leavethe country he had to work in a hotel in Britian to make his both ends meet.Ayub Khan introduced corruption.During 1969 , a british General reported the wealth of Gohar Ayub around 20 M USDollar.During Presidential elections , BD members were harrsed and paid heavy anmounts to vote in favour of Ayub Khan.

Ayub Khan sowed the seeds of separations amongst Bangal when he deinied their political rights. Shaikh Mujeeb urRehamn presented his six points that were virtually his mistrust on federation.Awami League supported Fatama Jinnah for Presidentship and if the elections were not rigged , her victory was confirm. This exacerbated their feelings to point of no return.

(Currently i am unable to continue , but will write on this subject on next sitting)

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Hoee hay jab say mukhalif hawa zamanay key......
Humain bhee dhun see hoee hay diaa jalaanay key

I do not agree with your last point.Ayub khan is not the first who denied political rights of Muslims.it was first denied my governor general ghulam muhammed who dismissed bengali PM of pakistan "husaaian shaeed seharwardi".PM .M.A .Bogra also formulated fine peace of constitution ,even bengali and west pakistani agreed to accept this constitution.but again assembly was dissolved and PM Bogra was dismissed.ayub was not the first but amongst those who had exploited the rights of bengla.

second,here we are discussing relation of democracy with economic development.we should mention those facts which are related to economy.if you are saying democracy is best then i will agree .but for this you have to show Pakistan economy really prospered if this system would have been adopted? if yes then why present govt is failed. do not mention the terrorism as a fact because Musharraf regime tackled it and 9/11 ka incidents be fresh tha and govt ko tb pressure bht zaida tha west ce tb be taraqe hev .why? and musharraf ka era economic development k e lehaz ce sunheri kehlata he

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

Please correct me, and add to my little knowledge, wasn't mr suharwardi PM under major General Sikandar mirza, as ghulam muhammad was no more in office that time?

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Economist.....

you are right as governor general govt ended in 1955 and hussain shaeed serhawardi was made PM in 1956

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

agreed,agreed
Patience ,practice and experience are indispensable for democracy.If you dislike any politician you can throw it out by election,the only way for bloodless transition of power.It is the evolutionary process.Magna Carta was signed in 13th century but still UK has house of lords.American constitution was adopted in 1789 but slavery was abolished in 1865 and women were given right to vote in 1920.
So kindly cool down there is no alternative of democracy.Let them complete their five years so that at the end they have no excuse.