No use of such discussions when you are living under such a democratic political scenario where there is no sound and no spokesman for Islam..
PPPP is not an Islam Based Party but still elected by majority of people...
PML N have just an anti peoples party stance, MQM, ANP , PML Q and Tehreek e Insaaf getting popularity, have no ideology for Islam...
Simple...Majority does not want Islam...They just need Roti, Kaprha and Makaan , life security and that's all....If Christian , Hindus etc etc got all these things they will all be happy no matter who rules either muslim or non-muslim...And I bet if any Non Muslim is allowed to run the state and runs like welfare state, all the Muslims living in so-called Islamic state will be much much glad and satisfied...No matter if they are declared secondary citizens of their own majority bearing country..
Life security and standard is only reason why every Pakistani lives in dreams of USA and Europe....

@taimoor gondal
There was no ideology of Pakistan before Zia's era.It was incorporated by Zia in the text books to prolong his regime in the name of Islam.secular is the only way to become honorable country of the world.This so called ideology has done more harm than good.The current scenario of our armed forces can be a good example.

arism doesn't mean "a state without religion" but it means a state where every one has the liberty and freedom to live according to their own religion.as in India,The US,UK and other countries.You have seen the Muslim as the president of India and a sikh as PM and a black president in the US,which is not possible in Pakistan.Citizen should be treated on equality which is the teaching of islam.

2.we are facing identity crises.A country which get independence on the name of Islam and also urdu was considered a unifying force at that time.But Urdu has failed to become a unifying force and same is the case with Islam.If we have any unifying force for nationalism then it is "ant-Indiannes". But Indians have a nationalism of Indianness which has binded them as a nation.
"In 1947 there was a nation searching for a country and now there is a country searching for a nation"
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@ahmadd
bro,perhaps you have not visited the link as given in my previous thread;
Secularism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

view the difference between your definition and that of george jacob hollioke(who coined the term secularism).he says;

"Secularism is the belief that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs."

which means that govt. has no religion.and YOU ARE SAYING that "a state where everyone has liberty to live according to his own religion"...is secularism.

since ,your understanding of the basic definition is flawed ,so, your whole argument needs a troubleshooting effort.

what you are saying{a state in which everyone should have the liberty to act according to his own religion],....is actually the definition of liberalism.and not of secularism

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so,after reading both definitions ,we can say that jinnah wanted pakistan to be a liberal and unsecular state.

moreover,islam has not failed alongwith urdu.
actually both were not enforced in true perceptions.all what was implemented was the false brown-englishmen,s culture.

and the islam was maligned intentionally to fight a war against SOVIET UNION.

infact,the true islam has never been enforced,but vague secular mentality was enforced by our establishment.
AND,ALMOST ALL THE PROBLEMS ARE THE NET RESULT OF SECULAR INTERESTS OF PRO-WEST REGIMES.

if,we had had implemented the spirit of MEESAQ E MADFINA in true perception,then,we could have evolved a truly welfare state.




--and don,t give the examples of india who has set the worst examples of theocratic hinduism in KASHMIR,GUJRAT,BANGLORE and GOLDEN TEMPLE.

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ali imraan

The world secular in Pakistan is misconceived as being akin to atheism.However such is not the case.Secularism make the state treat all the religions at par without its leaning towards a particular religion. The citizenry can freely practice and profess religion of choice with out interference from state.

Religion is something related to on'e inner side. But here in Pakistan, one's affiliation to religion is gauged from appearances , dogmas and rituals. This way of thinking has blurred the difference between virtue and vice. A person professing our religion is associated to virtue in comparison to a person who believe in some other religion even the latter may be off good character than former. We idealize despots like Mehmood Ghaznawi who came here to plunder the wealth of India in order to establish empire in Central Asia and persecuted innocent people but since he was apparently a Muslim , he is presented as Hero.

If history is a guide, no religious state could be established after Khilfat-e-Rashda . The monarchs of Ummiyad and Abbasids were just monarchs and the states they established just gave a semblance of Islam because they proclaimed themselves to be Caliphs but from there conduct they were not different from rulers of medieval age. Here I want to make point that virtue and vice should be viewed in isolation to religion.A non Muslim can be a good human but in our society , distorted inferences of religion has been ingrained in our minds in such way that we fail to understand this difference.

Putting restriction on a Non-Muslim to become President or Prime minister of Pakistan is not more than a hypocrisy. Who will ensure that one person is a Muslim if one apparently profess the religion but inside he/she is not so. This restriction will tempt the person towards hypocrisy.A former chief minster of Punjab was Qadyanee by Birth and latter converted to Islam. Is there not a possibility that he did so out of political motives? He was never known to be a man of good character.

We are intellectually intolerant and are not ready to listen what is against our perception. The opponents of popular views are labeled Kafir”. We seek refuge in conspiracies and believe that whole world especially the major powers are working against us. It’s the flawed approach. We are not so special that world is scared of us.

How many of us will love to live in non-Mulim western state if they grant us nationality? Is it not hypocrisy that we are not tired of speaking against west but we want to live there?

Currently two states are constitutionally Islamic States. Besides, Talban Govt ‘s official religion was Islam. What happened during Talban Regime in Afghanistan? They pushed the society to stone age. Females were persecuted? They banned TV in there country but allowed illegal trade of it through their land.In Iran rights violation is norm.In Pakistan what is happening needless to mention.

I don’t say that State should be turned into a secular one out rightly but there should be allowed a meaningful debate over it. We have been suffering since inception , and situation has exacerbated as the time passed. Fault must lie in us , so there us need for introspection.

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Hoee hay jab say mukhalif hawa zamanay key......
Humain bhee dhun see hoee hay diaa jalaanay key

In 1946, Quaid-e-Azam declared

‘We do not demand Pakistan simply to have a piece of land but we want a laboratory where we could experiment on Islamic principles."

pkistan was demanded on the basis of islam.......no one can deny it, and no situation can lead us to the conclusion that becoming secular is the way out.
islam gives us perfect example on how to run state matters in accordance with riligion.....it is the only religion in the world that gives complete freedom and security to minorities... allow them to practice their religion and respect them.... how many so-called secular states in the world allow this truely?????
u cannot just separate religion from state matters and become secular......i agree that liberalism should be adopted...... whatever is happening has nothing to do with pakistan being a islamic republic... nor it would end if we become secular.

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"The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

So dear when you secured a country that is supposed to be democratic and where majority is Muslim do you really need to declare it Islamic despite that legislature can make laws at his will in accordance with Islam?

Problem in India was not Hinduism? Problem in India was the fact that Muslims were in minority hence couldn't make laws in light of Islamic injunctions. once you find majority in legislature, there in absolutely no need to declared State "Islamic"..

If u want to make clergy man happy & some dictators to justify their period of dictator ship you should do it.

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Thanks & Regards
Faseeh

What is a religious state? A state that follows certain religions code in its running? But what makes an state or what it takes to make a state? The answer is masses, in our case the mass is "Muslim" religiously.

So what does it mean to make a state "Religious" when majority of its people are Muslims? It means and it shows the distrust over the democratic value that Quaid always promoted and nothing else. If we had believed in democracy, we would have remained state secular. contrary to it, we believe in aristocracy, plutocracy and mulho-cracy, therefore we make hue and cry that "Safeguard the state by declaring it Islamic"

To me, states of US, Japan, EU, even India (to certain extent) are more Islamic, in the sense that they follow the rules they made, they don't cheat public, they do work for welfare of masses, they don't take bribe, if any one found guilty of it they punish it, eduction is free and every one has equal opportunity to get educated, they take care of their senior citizens, they work for their country, they work for welfare of their fellows and they do not evade tax.


My point is that the practices of good-governance advocated in Islam have such universal application and appeal that it really don't need an state to be Islamic to work. It really does not matter whether the state is Islamic or not, if you follow teachings of Islam in word and spirit, you and your state will progress. And that was the purpose of creation of Pakistan.

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Thanks & Regards
Faseeh

PART I (INTRODUCTORY) ARTICLE 2 of Constitution of Pakistan clearly mentions"Islam is the state religion of Pakistan". Besides, Objective resolution, which is part of constitution of Pakistan envisages that no law can be made against the basic spirit of islam. so to propagate secularism(bay-deeni) is tantamounts to breaching the constitution of Pakistan.Article 6(high Treason) speaks that any person aiding or abetting the person who show abhorrence to constitution of Pakistan is infact prepatrator of treason!

agreeeed....
also some guys are not differentiating between "state" and "government".AS there is majority of Muslim in Pakistan ,they can make laws according to the teaching of Islam ,so there is no need of naming the state as Muslim or christian.

the topic is so ironic....as if we'are living in a PRO-ISLAMIC STATE
we are actually living according to our wishes.so if by the name ''islamic republic'' you are confused,then dont get in a delusion.its secular....word ''must'' be secular made me chuckle out

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*you can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him*-leo aikman!