Excellent message brother.

Sadly, there will still be many who will talk about a secular state and go even so far as to question whether Islam has a political system to offer at all.

These are the ones who will quote people like Bertrand Russel, as if it were the word of God (Ma'azAllah) and fail to realize how best that argument goes against themselves...

Quran says about such people:

"So have they not traveled through the earth and have hearts by which to reason and ears by which to hear? For indeed, it is not eyes that are blinded, but blinded are the hearts which are within the breasts." 24:46

May Allah guide us all. Ameen

Alas, majority of my fellow youth seem profusely obsessed with medieval Shariah for solution to the contemporary problems. There're no free-thinkers, iconoclast amongst us to challenge the orthodox narratives of Mullahs/Clergies. What about America as a Christian State, Japan as Buddist State, India as a Hindu State and so on?? Islamic State is really a mirage which we are chasing since our inception. Instead of leading to a pluralistic state, it descended us into chaos and splinterism.

Bottom Line: I strongly advocate the Secular State - Let us establish our "Islam" within ourselves and don't enforce it on others.

You clearly have no idea about Shariah's age. The system that you advocate is is much older than shariah i.e. Shariah is most modern of political systems out there.

The orthodox narrative that you speak of it the one that is being pursued the world over. The evidence to that is that words like "democracy", "freedom of expression" etc etc have become synonymous with Good and the expressions like "establishment of Islam" and "shariah law" have been linked to medieval times and oppression.

So you are right, there aren't people out there objecting to this "orthodoxy" of the modern times!

We wouldn't mind if other states started to follow their faith rather than their economic interests, the world just might be a better place than it is now.

Pluralism has never worked anywhere in the world, look at the niqab ban in europe and the ban on Minarets... the oppression on racial grounds of blacks around the world, the racism against indians in Australia, the 500 years of genocide by U.S of the native americans.... I can go on forever!

Oh YOU YOU YOU MUSLIMS are talking about Pluralism????

You say look at niqab ban in Europe and ban on Minarates??? So, you mean whole France constitutes Europe???? What about mandatory observance of niqab on non-Muslim women in ""Holy"" Saudi Arabia and Islamic Republic Iran??? What about banning of Christian Churches, Hindu Temples and Jewish synagogues in ""Holy"" Saudi Arabia??? Where's "Pluralism" in your ""Holy"' Center??? You have committed genocide of Christians, Ahmedi Muslims and Shia Muslims in Pakistan and you are talking about Europe??? Your whole constitution is discriminated against minorities and suppress their rights.

Oh You YOU YOU talking about racism?? Oh Come' on!! Their "dirty blacks" have been elevated to presidency and civil rights act and first amendment of the US defines everything.

I better rest my case here; else, I will be crucified.

Please... don't assume things about "our" (Muslims') intellect and knowledge. I said Europe because France is part of the European Union and the charter of the European Union guarantees religious freedom but their hypocrisy is evident when they put you to sword when you talk about the jews but do nothing when Islam and its practices are being targeted.

On the other hand, we (yes, Muslims) do not say we that we are for freedoms and liberty etc (which turn you against Allah S.W.T).

Ahmedis are not muslims and there has never been a genocide of ANYONE on the Muslim land because it is not allowed in Islam... and not because we are pluralistic! We are monotheists...in faith and in practice!

Don't go on talking about Iran, Saudi Arabia etc as if they are true Islamic states. There is no true Islamic state.........yet!

Denial, Denial, Denial, Denial .......

This flat state of denial definitely prevents you from doing your self-introspection. If Muslims are pious this much, they would have been ruling the world. And if I take you back to the golden age of Muslims, that era was dominated by Muslim intellectuals like Ibn Rushd (Averroes) who de-linked faith and reason; and first one to conduct critical inquiry into God's existence. But the then Molvis/Ullama issued fatwa of Kuffar against those Muslim free thinkers and some were even tortured to death - that was beginning of downfall of Muslims. And Muslims are still in that phase where role model of our youth is not scientists, scholars or great leaders, but their role models are mullahs like those of Tariq Jamel, Zakir Naeek et all ... O' pity!

Aaah.. I thought you had rested your case. Clearly you weren't satisfied with that weak last punch of yours. Sadly this one is no different.

You talk about Ibn Rush and omit rest of numerous believing scientists and philosophers of the Golden age. But did the Golden age come about because of Ibn Rushd or Ibn Rush came about because of the Golden age??

The downfall of the Muslims came about not because of their protection of Islam but because of their abandoning of it. It was when decisions were made for political gains, economic interests and Islamic teaching were shelved and made as you want them to i.e. personal, that muslims' downfall started.

Today, with most of the world's oil and most largest of U.N's block of nations i.e. 57 Muslim state, we still can not ward off attacks on our lands and centuries old occupation from them. Whilst the west severs east timor and sudan as they wish. This is only because of our abandoning of Islam.

Our role models are not Zakir Naik etc but Khulafa-e-Rashideen and most of all Hazrat Muhammad S.A.W.

I did rest my case, but you dragged me...

Go back and re-read my previous post. I mentioned the then scientists and scholars and Ibn Rush was a case in point. I can give you ample example. Take Al Razi who also got fatwa of kuffar from the then Mullahs who humiliated the then scientists...

O Khulaf e rashdin your role model?? Who were also driven by vested interests?? Three of them were killed by their own Muslim killers?? Killing of Muslim by Muslims started in that era, isn't it?? O yar gimme break before I get death sentence on this ""blaspheme"". Stay obsessed with "Islamic" state. If you have a time then do read Mubarik Haider two recent books, "Tehzeebi Narqisiyaat" and second one "Mughaltay Mubalghay".

How could I have dragged you?? Oh yes, by completely destroying your weak arguments!

Go on and list the Scholars from Golden age that fit your narrative and I'll give you the names of those who don't. Let us see who are more. There no "Maulvis" as we know them today in the time you term Golden Age. There were scholars of deen. Besides, I've not called it "my" Golden age.

Let us talk about the era of Khulfah Rashid. Let me see you substantiate your claim that Khulafa were moved by their self-interest.

You say those who killed Khulafa were Muslims. Muslim is not a title, it is a proclamation of a practice i.e. submission to Allah S.W.T. Killing and innocent human being is forbidden and according to that definition those who martyred the Khulafa were not Muslims.

I'll suggest you to read a book too, its called Quran!

LOL! you write: "... by destroying your weak arguments" - that reflects your condescending and holier-than-thou attitude. O "destroying". What Muslims have done other than "destroying"??? Have you really "reformed" something?? Yes, you have destroyed Russia, India (4-time), Afghanistan, now China will soon be conquered...

Why are you showing this naivity?? Never did I mean that few scientist or scholar like Ibn Rushd or Razzi made the golden age; what I meant was that presence of such intellectual and iconoclastic minds definitely owed a lot to the progress. However, those minds are in great rarity; rather completely absent today. That era was marked by free-thinkers and people of high intellect and not the caliber of molvis of today...

Khulaf e Rashidin?? Mind you that era witnessed colossal bloodshed of humanity; hundreds and thousands of Muhammad's companions were victim of mutual strife and internecine wars. And you are preaching here to invoke that backward bloodshed era??? Go and read Ridda wars history where Abu Bakar killed fellow Muslims who didn't take allegiance to his "self-serving" authority of first caliph. Those were declared apostates. Look at Ali and Aisha's feuds. That killed thousands of Muslims. Then this era was followed by another Hitlerian Era of Yazid who killed whole family of Mohammad over night. And you are preaching here to invoke that era??