I can understand who is living in "Fool's paradise". I am surprised to see how people are comparing west with wealth of arab monarchs. Nation's foundation is laid on widely accepted constitution, democratic institutions and active civil society not on newly constructed superhighways and taller buildings. Can you please name any political leader that can lead libyans now? Accept that of his own son Saif ul Islam Qaddafi who was widely known in west and US as door to Libyan oil resources, thats how they were helping Islam. And during much of his regime he tried to unite Arabs not on the basis of Islam but on Arabic ethnicity and later when he failed he introduced African Nationalism. And as I told earlier it was civilians who were fighting against Qaddafi rather any trained militia means these rebels were representing majority of Libyan Population except that of Qaddafi's own tribe. Lastly I wholeheartedly blame repeated militry interventions for present situation of Pakistan. Ayub took first step and became an inspiration for his juniors. Democracy does not provide benift instatnly instead its a course of time that makes it fruitful and on the otherhand dictator can change things quickly but it leads to instability in future. Dictatorship alwasy leads to bloody revolts, If I am not wrong historical event of Karbla was the first war fought against a dictator and after that muslim history is full of revolts. When we cry of our glorious past we fail to realize that it was absence of any system to replace rulers that turned time against us.

Its seems that the current Arab spring and Political turmoil in the muslim world is rope-pulling and struggle for power between two sections of Islam rather than conflict between Islam and west. west is instigating, supporting and inciting one section of muslims population to revolt, overthrow the Government ,Kingdoms and Dictators.

for example.

1- USA was aided by Northern alliance and Hazaras to make to their final victory

2- without support of one section of Population USA would have not been not be able to get down saddam

3- In Saudi arabia , Bahrain , Yemen and Syria Protests are going on. which are more violent in Syria , by one section of islam against the rulers.

One thing is clear, the west is using and instigating one section of muslims to take arms against their rulers.i wonder why west is giving so much deal to Iran , it may have many reasons but one thing is clear not to attack Iran is , to get the Sympathies of one section of muslims. and Iran has been the spiritual homeland for muslims since centuries.

Muslim Unity desperately needed.

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Forget safety.Live where you fear to live.Destroy your reputation.Be notorious

Its these dictators who don't want Muslims to be united. Saudi's vs Iran, Syria Vs Egypt, Iraq Vs Iran, Behrain plus Saudi monarchs vs Shia majority in Bahrain and Iran and finally Libya vs Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and there is an incident that was reported in annual meeting of Arab League where Mr Qaddafi and Saudi Shah exchanged harsh compliments against each other. All these rulers have got support of US why because that's the only way to keep Muslims divided. Does any of you know that there is a huge number of Pakistanis working in Behrain's security forces? because when minority needs to suppress majority they need people from same school of thought. Turkey is best example of how democracy makes a country stronger over the time period both at internal and foreign fronts.

I would like to share a conversation between my acquaintance and his Libyan friend (who used to work on oil rigs in Sahara) and belonged to middle-class family (and this person was a namazi parhezgar banda as per my acquaintance).

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

i dont understand why saddam is visualised as hero by some of us here.why people are ignoring the fact that he killed hundreds or may be thousands(according to U.N) of protestors who were against his unjust rule.are heroes like this?

can anyone tell me his contributions for the muslim world?beacuse now i have reaaly started to believe that i am ignorant of his contributions after witnessing his place in the heart of some of my fellows.

the simple plain fact is that libiyans stood against Qaddafi and started the movement against him.nato/US came after the uprising started(though there surge was unjustified,to me).

and it is really biased to say that rebels in libya paved the way for american intervention in libya.had there been no unjust dictatorship there would have been no uprising and no intervention.so,to me,qaddafi was the reason of american intervention in libya.plus had qaddafi been a great leader(as is said),he would have steeped down from the throne(a better terminology) in the larger interest of the nation and to stop foreign intervention in the country(it would be a bit harsh but realities are often bitter."qaddafi k walid sahab na to usay libya wirasat ma nahee diya tha na k sari zindagi wo aur phir us k bachay libya par rule kartey")


if libyaz per capita income is higher than other african countries then it is because of the wealth possessed by libya in the form of oil,which is of course the property of libyans not qaddafi.had there been sound economic policies in place in libya by qaddafi i would have praised him.plus agar qaddafi awam ki dolat awam par kharch karta tha to koi ahsaan to nahee karta tha na,meray mutabiq.

lastly we may witness a similar episode in syria if the rulers oppressed the massess there in the same way libya and egypt did.

it is said that qaddafi was against west and used to speak vehemently against them.i wonder,differ and question that who was the number 1 beneficiary of oil of libya in his times?even after the change of set-up the beneficiaries will be the same with a slight change of order vertically.americans/west just changed their side,perhaps to have better bargain and control over oil reserves and to limit russia and china from gaining access to the black gold.

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Puppet,Slave,Lover

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBA Libya and Libyan "dictator" Muammar Gaddafi: 1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens. 2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law. 3. Home considered a human right in Libya – Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi’s father has died while him, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent. 4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$ 50,000 ) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family. 5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%. 6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kick- start their farms – all for free. 7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it – not only free but they get US $2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance. 8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidized 50% of the price. 9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter. 10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion – now frozen globally. 11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found. 12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens. 13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US $5 ,000 14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15 15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree 16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country. Source: A Friend shared.

Some of his atrocities

a. Thousands killed while in prison, either as a result of torture, or deliberate mass killing of prisoners due to their Islamic inclinations and opposition to the Gaddafi regime, most famously the massacre at Abu Salim prison in 1996. Mass graves thought to be holding more than 1000 of the victims have been uncovered since the downfall of the Gaddafi regime.

b. Co-operation with the United States and Britain in the torture and rendition of opposition figures, including current prominent figures of the opposition.

c. Public Executions of Civilians in the 1980′s, by way of example -

1 – Omar Ali Debub (teacher and the university students participated in the demonstrations in January 1976): executed by hanging on 6 April 1977 in front of the Socialist Union building in Benghazi
2 – Mohammed Bin Saud Al-Tayeb (teacher and the university students participated in the demonstrations in January 1976): executed by hanging on 6 April 1977 in front of the Socialist Union building in Benghazi
3 – Ahmed Fouad Fathallah (an Egyptian): executed by hanging on 6 April 1977 the port of Benghazi Sea
4 – Saleh Ali al-Zarouk Al-Nawal (teacher): April 1982 was executed in prison
5 – Mohammed Muhatthab Ihfaf (college student) (due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): Hanged on April 7, 1983 in the Faculty of Engineering at the University of Tripoli
6 – Nimr Khaled Khamis (Palestinian teacher) (due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): Executed by hanging in front of students on 7 April 1983 al-Fatih secondary school in Ajdabiyya
7 – Nasser Mohammad Sares (Palestinian teacher) – (due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): Executed by hanging in front of students on 7 April 1983 al-Fatih secondary school in Ajdabiyya
8 – Ali Ahmed Awadallah (Palestinian teacher) – (due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): Executed by hanging in front of students on 7 April 1983 al-Fatih secondary school in Ajdabiyya
9 – Hasan Bader Al Badi (Palestinian teacher) – (due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): Executed by hanging in front of students on 7 April 1983 al-Fatih secondary school in Ajdabiyya
11 – Hassan Ahmad al-Kurdi (student) -(due to membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir): April 1984 was executed in prison

12 – Abdullah Abu al-Qasim Msallati (student) – (due to membership of Hizb ut Tahrir): April 1984 executed secretly in prison without trial
13 – Rashid Mansour Kaabar (college student) – it was claimed that he was from the followers of Sheikh Al-Bishti – executed by hanging on 16 April 1984 in Tripoli, Faculty of Pharmacy
14 – Hafidh al-Madani (college student): executed by hanging on 16 April 1984 at the Faculty of Agriculture
15 – Mustafa al-Nouweiri: executed by hanging on 21 April 1984 at the University of Benghazi

d. Assassinations carried out abroad in the 1980′s, by way of example:

1 – Mohamed Mustafa Ramadan (radio reporter, apparently due to his membership of Hizb ut Tahrir): 11 April 1980 he was assassinated outside the mosque after Friday prayers in London
2 – Mahmoud Abdel-Salam Nafi (lawyer): 21 April 1980, was assassinated in Britain
3 – Arif Abdul Jalil (businessman): 19 April 1980, was assassinated in Rome
4 – Abdul Latif alMuntasir (businessman): 21 April 1980, was assassinated in Beirut
5 – Gabriel Abdel Razek al-Dinaly (a police officer and a popular poet): 6 April 1985, was assassinated in Bonn, Germany

In Memory of the Criminal Gaddafi: Some of his atrocities against the people | New Civilisation

But I still believe there is no question 'Rebels' had right to kill him,he should have been tried at international court of Law.

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When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

It's been a very knowledgeable thread so far about the facts behind the killing of Qaddafi...
I've a video to share with you guys which will sure help many of us understand why there's been a US-NATO intervention into Libya...

Why BANKERS want GADDAFI dead. - YouTube

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Real richness is that you are so expensive that no one can buy your character.

The reason behind the Gaddafi's collapse may be many, but the most vital one was and is, Banking/Financial sector was not welcomed in their and capitalism faced a resistance in Libya.

No doubt he killed many but for whom? He gave a life to millions, and now we will see how long they will maintain the same Standard of living for Libyans, hope for the best but Gaddafi was a brave man and heroic personality, if he wanted, he could have taken a safe passage, but he fought and died on his land as per his statement.

Regards,

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'Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius!

We all will see in future that how much the democratic system will bring prosperity... as it is said that "wo ihsan ni tha karta agar awam ka paisa awam py kharch karta tha", than according to member of the forum if any government do not invest the nations assets for its nourishment they should be held responsible . . what's about 97billion in swiss accounts? what's about the oil we were selling nato since 2001 without tax? on 1 litter the tax is 25 rupees, and in a week have been losing billions of rupees, what we think why the prices of patrol rose so speedy?

the idea of gaddafi about the foreign reserves held in gold was pure economical and it was the biggest threat for western countries, the brettonwood system of dollor backing economies was the biggest trap ever made to control the world wealth, you dont need to keep gold which is the real asset, just keep dollars, and at a certain time US will demonetize the currency (it is also a conspiracy theory and have been proved by many economist), the whole economic system of the world will collapse. we use to think on little issues, for them we all are muslims, they dont care who is shia, sunni, hanfi, malki etc. they just know we are muslim and that's it, but we people waste our energy on arguing who is right who is wrong, we should declare who we are,
"chor day do rangi yak rang ho ja, sara sar moam ya sang ho ja"
they demolished islamic khilafat to divide us and they won, they remained playing with us , and we despite knowing the fact blindly followed them.
I agree that Libya wasn't the "jaidad" of gaddafi.... nor it is possible, if in democratic country sharif brothers can make palace on 25 murabba, while the tax they pay to country is 10000, which is less than the shop owner of any market. if in democratic country PPP sectaries in sidh could use 4 to 10 cars each for personal use and the fuel charges of each car ranges 150,000 to 200,000 per month, where MQM can held the land of any one, where Ch brothers could snatch the hotel built on jehlum river from his owner by threats, where the politicians could settle the scam issues by bargaining (Moonis Ilahi is acquitted because the persecutor failed in proving him guilty),
so if so much could happen in democratic country than what are we hoping from monarchs?
we should try to focus on our own issues, irony is we people are unaware of our neighbours of street, but we are ready to criticise the farther country about which we knew a few.
we all will see the future reforms of the Libya, I request you people if the same fate is written for Libya as of Iraq, please when you will see with your own eyes that it was just the western tact, please at least at that day come to a single platform. during Iraq war we put all efforts to protect the rights of civilians, than why now we just left thinking of Iraq and its people. . . . they are unable to buy a bread for themselves. . . I know just one thing that west could never be in favour of muslims not because I am biased but because My Creator told me and he is very well aware
Surah Number 60: Al-Mumtahinah

1. 'O believers! Take not for friends My and your enemies, you deliver the news to them in friendship, while they are deniers of the truth that has come to you, and drive out the Messenger and yourselves from homes because you believe in Allah, your Lord. If you have come out in my path to struggle and to seek My pleasure, take them not for friends; you send them secret message of love, while I know well what you conceal and what you reveal. And whoever of you does so, has, undoubtedly, gone astray from the straight path.
2. If they get hold of you, they will be your enemies and will stretch forth their hands and their tongues towards you with evil, and they desire that you should anyhow become disbelievers.
3. Never will profit you, neither your kind-red nor your children on the Day of Judgement. He shall separate you from them. And Allah is seeing your doings.

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Janoon say or Ishq say milti hay AAZADI

Muslims show sympathy with the tyrrant rulers like sadam or Qaddafi because it is psyche of the majority of the muslims that when a Muslim ruler is killed by a foreign force they take side with the ruler no matter how corrupt,dishonest,unjust or oppressive he was.thats why rulers like Sadam are revered like heroes even though he killed thousands of innocent muslims.Im sure if Bashar al asad is met with same fate someday muslims will sympathise with him in the same way as they did with rest of the rulers.every muslim is regarded as hero who has little courage to speak out against US hypocritic policies.living far from these countries we may not know the ground realities so we judge Muslim rulers as leaders of Muslim world not as rulers of Libya or any other country that why we overlook their oppressive acts against their own people.thats is the reason that Musharraf was regarded as good leader(for he suited their interests) by west and dictator by us.This is great game being played by US and allies for oil or may be there other reasons also.Muslims sympathise with Qaddafi because he was targeted by US conspiracy and also because he had done many good things for his country.when rulers of Tunisia and Yemen were given shelter in KSA,when Hosni Mubarak is facing trial why Qaddafi was directly executed?.he should have been persecuted for his crimes.this fact make us have pity for Qaddafi.
In Islam great responsibility lies with muslim rulers to act with justice and fairness.they will be held accountable for their injustice,tyranny,oppression,corruption,and dishonesty not only in hereafter but also in this world.Shah of Iran,Sadam Hussain,Hosni Mubarak and Qaddafi are its glaring examples.But have rulers ever learnt from history that they will learn now?The Quran gives legitimacy to protest against oppressive rulers but this right of muslims is never accepted by rulers nor they are willing to accept.desire for power is like addiction and those who are addicted to it never let it go even if it cost them their life.this is also proved by history.

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"Our affairs r attached to the destiny decreed by Allah even our best plans may lead us to destruction.Ali(a.s)