AOA,

I think some ppl got my points wrong...........
Now one can deny the importance of education,,,,,,,,,,, but the point is that there are some problems in our education system which needs to be corrected.
First we have many layers of education system. An upper echelon of british schools systems, army and cadet colleges and schools, private schools/colleges, public(govt) sector schools and colleges and on the bottom is madrassa system.....; what do u thing is the outcome of a such a complex system. A complete disaster!
Another dimension of difference in our education system is region based. Can anyone compare a govt schools in islamabad with the one in the interior of sindh or balochistan.
This type of education system is going to produce a class system. And a nation with class system is like bubles which can explose any time,,,,,,,,,
By the way our law minister is highly educated . For me he is literate but not educated.

to be continued:::

take care

the solution of all the problems as 1st step is "every pakistani has to change itself, make himslef think" basic need is education developing unbiased minds

__________________
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more,
do more and become more, you are a leader
MCS Final Year (Karachi University)

Well its an excellent discussion going on... i am a bit late but will like to jump in...

In the above discussion by the worthy forum members, there hav been two major solutions discussed....one is islamaization and second promotion of education.....well i cast my vote in favour of education.i think lack of education i-e simply illiteracy is the main root cause of all the problems either social, political,or economic prevailing in our motherland....if we eradicate this problem all other related problems will vanish automatically...but by education i dont just mean western modern education only, it should definately be in connection to islam...why cant we take both these issues side by side?

In sis fozia's opinion there should be true implication of islam, but i think in the world of today, in the present scenario how can we become true/good muslims, if we are uneducated...how can we think to put into practice the principles of islam, if we are not well-informed and knowledgeable...like the illiterate talibans who are projecting our prestigious religion so dreadfully...

We know that little knowledge is always dangerous...see what these(sorry to say) so called Moulvi hazraaat are doing...most of them are the those children whom thier parents send to madrassas in their early childhood...and those who sometimes run away from houses due to several reasons.... They aquire this status(of moulvi) merely by memorizing the Holy Quran and recieting it on different occasions like Quls or khatams...these people are (again with appology) are imparting such education which hardly has anything to do woth our religion.We hardly hav repectable number of truely Learned and Scholarly religious scholars....

so the point which i want to explain here is that whether it is religion or any other field of life Education is Must...only a well educated muslim and learned muslim can project and promote his religion in a far more better way as compared to an illiterate.as well as he can play his part in solving other problems relating to our motherland.....so while living in an islamic state promoting islam should be the utmost responsibility with association to modern contemprary education, and the domain of education should not be neglected at all....

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A Man Would Do Nothing,
If He Waited Until He
Could Do It So Well
That No One Would Find Fault
With What He Has Done.

@Prieti..
a real sketch of maulvi saahib has been drawn.
we need to eliminate these ppl frm our society and real religous scholars should take thier place. These maulvi saahibaan has taken our religion as hostage.

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REBEL

Well preiti n Rehman
With ur due respect --Y we always condemn n criticise maulvies for defaming pakistan. They r merely 4 percent of population. Who has embarresed us most-- these maulvies or so called educated people ie( Politicians, journals, civil servents etc) who have devoured all n left nothing for poor?. Who is responsible of polluting the minds of our youth by promotion of vulgarity in Media?
Who is amending the constitution every day? Y we dont highlight n condemn these animals in form of humanbeings?
It does not mean i support unjust steps of maulvies. But we have to be realistic n must endorse truth.
Regards,

__________________
When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

@invincible...........agreed
further more.........what right do we have of criticizing the poor maulvis........we r the ones responsible for their creation........in ISLAM there is no such profession as that of a maulvi. "MAULVISIM" took place due to necessity.........when the majority of the people in our country cant say even namaz-e-janazah........we needed someone who could take care of these TRIVIAL matters.......and the result was that a maulvi was created..........most of the people forgot their true religion and were busy in looting and corruption.........the least educated and, more often then not, the mentally retarded child of a family was sent to "STUDY THE QURAN".......and this gave rise to imbeciles who began calling themselves the "protectors of Islam."
i can go on and on about the origin of maulvis and our hand it in but the crux of the matter is that "we r responsible for all the problems of pakistan, be it maulvism or whatever"
and some of my esteemed fellow members have said that the solution for these problems is "education".........well i beg to differ.............because education cannot be the solution to the whole problem........why , cause all the countries more educated then us , have their own kinds of problems........
so there can never be a complete solution.........but we can surely try to MINIMIZE them..........and the best way to do that, in my opinion, is to make each and every individual understand the true meaning of islam...........ISLAM IS THE ONLY WAY OUT FOR US.............i ,myself am not a very religious person , but i try to understand my religion and so try to live my life according to its basic principles..........i am not talking about islamization of pakistan.......but rather, what i am trying to say is that all of us need to really understand our religion and live our lives according to it.........and eventually, spread it through out the country.........one cannot change the mind of all the people at once........but little by little people will change.
islam too, propogates education and if we all live by its rules, all the people will have to get education.............think of it this way........ISLAM is like a house in which education, quran, peace, justice etc. all have their own rooms.........all these rooms make up the house and all are essential for the the whole out look of the house............the house is worthless without the rooms and the rooms cannot SURVIVE with out the protection of the house...............get my point?
So, all in all...........Islam is the only option for us in order to MINIMIZE all the problems of Pakistan.............by Islam I mean TRUE ISLAM.

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The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta,
held as a votive, not in vain, for the value
and veracity of such shall one day vindicate
the vigilant and the virtuous.
*********************************

Well the issue under discussion was regarding islam and education so i gave this example...and i was expecting this criticism....according to u they are 4% of the total population...ok right.. but u must see how blindly our public follows them in each and every aspect of life.In every village whenever or even in cities when any problem arises people always run to the moulvi to seek supervision, without taking into consideration, that whether he would be able to show them the right path or not?...aur sonay pe suhaga if these people are uneducated, this worsens the situation more...

There is a concept of expected role behaviour, and there are certain behaviours which pple expect from this dignified status..people consider them as a spiritual leader....The point i made is that its not the moulvi or any particular person who is dire,what i meant to say that its lack of education which prevents any individual to perform his role in a right and just way.

And whom u call the so called educated people ie( Politicians, journals, civil servents etc) hav nothing to do to guide or direct people ...Their nature of job is totally different...they hav to perform different types of jobs in different institutions...they are here to serve people in more of social context, rather religious.... but when we talk abt maoulvi it strikes in our mind that he is someone who has to perform certain duties and roles to guide common people..there are certain specific roles assingned to him. and the society expects from him...
no doubt these politicians,journals,and civil servants hav devoured all, but again i would say that this is all because of lack of education...these politicians are hardly B.A....u will be remembering that issue of condition of graduation for elections(a few years back)....

well dear riaz, u r most welcome to condemn those whom u call animals...i hav been criticizing some people in my different posts....its not the moulvis who are my first victim.

__________________
_____________________________________________

A Man Would Do Nothing,
If He Waited Until He
Could Do It So Well
That No One Would Find Fault
With What He Has Done.

@wounded healer

dear babar u hav nicely explained the institution of moulvi...i do respect ur views but i hav certain points to clarify...

Dear this forum provides us opportunity and a platform to express our views,even if its criticisim...and criticism not for the critisims sake,but for betterment and improvement....

U used the term 'poor maulvis'.... These moulvies are poor due to lack of oppurtunities, negligance of govrnment and lack of funds towards this institution...otherwise situation might hav been different....

I dont contradict ur views, but i am just trying to explain that whats wrong if these people get proper education...not necessarily modern edu, but at least religious education in its true manner...i think educated moulvis would be able to guide people in a better way.

thats what i was saying that mostly such type of persons with so much unhinged and disturbed background are acquiring the status of moulvi...children who fail to get through schools or fail to pass in exams are sent to madrassas...and bm moulvi, eventually they obliterate and devastate this institution.

see babar...our country is facing manifold problems at present....every problem is linked to other...all these problems are interconnected....similarly the solutions to these problems are manyfold as well as interlinked....but but i will again focus on education, coz i think majority of the problems hav their grassroots in illiteracy...if we find solution to this problem we will be able to inshallah solve most of our problems....

dear babar bhai, i hav mentioned this point in my first post in this particular thread that what we need while living in an islamic republic is to promote islam in connection with contemprary modern education.so thats why i gave the example of an educated moulvi, which i think covers both the concept of true islam as well as an educated individual....
regards,

__________________
_____________________________________________

A Man Would Do Nothing,
If He Waited Until He
Could Do It So Well
That No One Would Find Fault
With What He Has Done.

@ prieti,
dear, u have misunderstood me ...........when i said that we have no right to criticize the maulvis, i meant that we were responsible for their attitude and we created them, so how can we criticize something which we helped create in the first place.i didnt say that we should'nt discuss it on the forum, in fact we should, but we should also analyse the cause frist........
thats what i am trying to say..........we need educated PEOPLE both in the modern context as well as in our religion, not just EDUCATED MAULVIS..........as i said before, maulvi profession is not in islam..........in a true islamic state, every person should be a maulvi, by this i mean that we should all have in-depth knowledge about our religion as well as other worldly affairs..........anyways,as it stands right now, i think that maulvism should be abolished from our country, but then the question arises, who will lead the prayers, who will lead the eid prayers and who will lead the namaz-e-janazaah.............of course, for this we do need the maulvis cause we ourselves have forgotten our religion.
i totally agree with u on this keh all the problems r connected but , in my humble opinion, i think the broad based solution is in "OUR RELIGION", because it covers education as well...........refer to my previous post in which i gave the example of the HOUSE...........i agree that education is essential but if we take a broader view, then islam is the only option........as it covers everthing that we need to solve our problems.......

__________________
*********************************
The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta,
held as a votive, not in vain, for the value
and veracity of such shall one day vindicate
the vigilant and the virtuous.
*********************************

if one has a hammer, all problems look like nails. The real trouble begins when one thinks that the hammer might be the right solution for headaches too.
that is what our govt. do which breeds more problems for them as well as for citizens also.

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" Woods are lovely dark and deep But i have promises to keep And miles to go before i sleep "