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Is Islam a religion or Deen ? Is Islam a religion or Deen ?

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  #41  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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A person Can follow Deen e Islam or Can not follow deen e Islam there can not be a mid-way. You want to follow Islam as a religion not as a deen. Its your choice there is nothing wrong in that but When you oppose someone who is obying his master's order for establishment of his deen then you are indirectly opposing the master.
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  #42  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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That's not much of an argument. But anyways, there are arguments on both sides. I can say that you are disobeying the master by imposing your system (which you imagine to be the only correct interpretation of what the master said) on others without their consent. No one, as I said, has a monopoly on truth.
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  #43  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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So by Deen you mean the political implementation of Islam? Well, that's another definition among million others.
off course you are right. Why Muhmmad (PBUH) had endure so much hardships? to establish political Islam . That is what I am saying. Either I should follow him or I may take position that it was valid only for that time.

I can not take 2nd position because it was far difficult that time to establish political Islam but Muhmmad (PBUH) did it. I claim to be his ummati and avoid his path then it is not right.
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  #44  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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That's a difference of opinion then. You take religion as a political system, and I prefer more real life, social aspects of it. Arguments can be brought on both side and arguments on the political side are far less.

I do think Islam provides certain instructions about good governance but that does not mean it has an entire political system from where it is not possible to divert. That is a myth.

Reducing 'deen' to a political system is making a travesty of it, in my opinion.
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  #45  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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That's a difference of opinion then. You take religion as a political system, and I prefer more real life, social aspects of it. Arguments can be brought on both side and arguments on the political side are far less.

I do think Islam provides certain instructions about good governance but that does not mean it has an entire political system from where it is not possible to divert. That is a myth.

Reducing 'deen' to a political system is making a travesty of it, in my opinion.
Now you are deviating from the topic.
We are muslims because of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). He is a role model for us and his teachings are for all times to come . With the passage of time there can be new interpretation so that society can be harmonize with changing times but one should be very clear that Fundamental goal can not be changed. The Fundamental goal is to prove that choise of Allah (SWT) was right when he appointed Man as his vicegerent. (If one claims to be a muslim and have faith in the verocity of Quran Pak)
There should be changing in thinking as well but again fundamentals can not be touched.
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  #46  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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We are muslims because of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). He is a role model for us and his teachings are for all times to come . With the passage of time there can be new interpretation so that society can be harmonize with changing times but one should be very clear that Fundamental goal can not be changed. The Fundamental goal is to prove that choise of Allah (SWT) was right when he appointed Man as his vicegerent. (If one claims to be a muslim and have faith in the verocity of Quran Pak)
Yes of course. And vicegerent-ship doesn't necessarily imply imposing a certain form a government. It can mean leading life according to the way of Islam. So you see, it can be interpreted in more than one ways.

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There should be changing in thinking as well but again fundamentals can not be touched.
I'm not questioning any fundamentals here. Establishing a government (or following a certain political system for that matter) is nowhere called a fundamental tenet of Islam.
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  #47  
Old Wednesday, January 29, 2014
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Yes of course. And vicegerent-ship doesn't necessarily imply imposing a certain form a government. It can mean leading life according to the way of Islam. So you see, it can be interpreted in more than one ways.



I'm not questioning any fundamentals here. Establishing a government (or following a certain political system for that matter) is nowhere called a fundamental tenet of Islam.
establishment of Governement is not an end itself it is only a mean to achieve that end. Whatever orders that have been given in Quran Pak should be followed in letter and spirit that is what I believe if it can be happened without establishing the governemnet then I do not have any problem but history tells that it is not possible.If You study the life of Prophet you will not find a more kind hearted men then him. He never wanted to hurt anyone, always ready to help the needy ones. but unfortunately history tells us that he had to cross sword to establish a just society.

I believe that freedom is too dangerous for man.
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Old Thursday, January 30, 2014
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That's all very well, but that's what you believe, and what you believe is not necessarily correct.
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  #49  
Old Thursday, January 30, 2014
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"Allah humma ar Zuqni Shahaada tan fe Sabilik" for Establishment of your deen or even for contributing slightly in its establishment.
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Old Friday, January 31, 2014
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"Allah humma ar Zuqni Shahaada tan fe Sabilik" for Establishment of your deen or even for contributing slightly in its establishment.
Allah humma ar zuqna shahaadatan fe sabilik

ameen
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