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  #101  
Old Saturday, August 30, 2014
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Originally Posted by Muhammad Ali Chaudhry View Post
I remember , when Musharraf attacked Jamiah Hafsa ,but he had a reason to take that step i.e strong information about the presence of weapons .

What this government is doing , attacking a peaceful protest .

Now , these are two different things . This government should be sued like none of the government before .


@Arsalan : It is not like what they have done in a year and half . What we can see now is the thing that any government think hundred times before doing it.In hundred of years , they get themselves into such a situation .


Expect anything and everything from Shareef's party. Their respect for the law and constitution is such that they have assaulted the Supreme court and harassed the judges out of pure love once. That too when the verdict of a case which could have ultimately disqualified Nawaz from contesting elections was due.
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  #102  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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Let's leave that to the readers shall we?
You, meanwhile, can go back to the rudimentary problem. Did I refer to A particular speech or a bunch of speeches? Work on that. Please.
Okay, you did not refer to a single speech but multiple ones. I mistook the plural for a singular, as liars are wont to do. Now then, where are multiple speeches?

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You yourself answered your own question. There is not much evidence for that. Thank you.
I ask you, however, is there any evidence whatsoever? Until you find that, It is not relevant to the current crisis.
Ah, yes, irrelevant. Let’s see how irrelevant Musharraf is to the current crisis.

The first success of this dharna-bazi (Urdu term, ignore if you can’t understand, basically they use this for the ‘revolution’ of IK/TUQ) was the removal of Musharraf’s name from the ECL.

“Sources added government has solicited legal opinion from its legal team directing it to keep the draft ready on emergency basis. The government will file this draft in Supreme Court (SC) keeping in view the prevailing situation in the country.”

http://www.nation.com.pk/national/11...ers-legal-team

Pervez Musharraf who, bear in mind, is leading a political party in Pakistan, lends full support to the glorious revolution and change: http://www.thenewstribe.com/2014/08/...tahirul-qadri/

Sources from the government said deal with military is about to be closed which, incidentally includes the removal of cases against Musharraf: http://www.dawn.com/news/1128364/pri...-with-army-wsj

Musharraf’s party things cases should be immediately withdrawn against him if the ‘dead lock’ is to be ended: http://www.nation.com.pk/national/23...tical-deadlock

Is he still not relevant? Surely, everyone else is also a liar just like me and our lone truthful hero is wandering on this forum?

Quote:
The demands of PTI were only met after the siege of the parliament. And not before.
Right, and that gives them the right to continue the siege after the demands are met and go ahead for a little excursion in the PM house too?

Quote:
Shareef's "Supreme indifference" to PTI demands when channeled through parliament, but submitting to the very same demands after the protests, is in itself a grave lesson for everyone. When the parliament fails to solve the problems, people take to the streets. I asked you what else do you propose they could have done once the Parliament failed? Don't tell me if what they did is right or wrong. Give me the alternative.

Similarly, the FIR was lodged after the siege of the Parliament. Not before. The very same parliament and parliamentarians paid little attention to what was state sponsored terrorism, and rather than ensuring and facilitating the FIR, were busy arguing if Qadri was sponsored by the invisible hand. It took two months and 15 days of protests to lodge an FIR against state sponsored Terrorism. Well done Parliament
I’m perfectly all right for protesting peacefully for your demands. They should have put forward the demands which make sense, such as the lodging of the FIR and inquiry of the elections, and these demands would have been met without much problem. My concern, (as I have been consistently pointing out in vain hope, because hope, as you aptly put, is all one can do) is the demands such as resignation of the PM, dissolution of the parliament, fresh elections etc. Here’s also the alternative that you demanded. What’s your preferred method, though? Just plunder whatever comes your way till some dead bodies accumulate. Mob rule, as I pointed out, is something I cannot argue against.

Quote:
The Parliament is there to safeguard the interests of the people. What PTI did was reaction to Parliament's inability to safeguard the very same interests. If Parliament had set the precedent of an independent inquiry swiftly, PTI would have never done what they did. The onus is on Parliament to make sure constitutional demands are taken care of. If they are not, then such precedents (What PTI did) become norm. Hope you understand. Because I am not going to restate.
Basically, I’ll update you on that too (please check the sources, I can be lying).

“…the PTI filed 58 petitions challenging the national and provincial assemblies’ seats, out of which 39 petitions (70 percent) have already been decided by the tribunals, in which not a single petition by PTI candidates could successfully substantiate the allegations of rigging. The remaining 19 petitions by the PTI are still pending.”

The process was basically, underway, and a lot had been accomplished. Unfortunately, it was clear to Mr. Khan that even inquiry would not bring home the bacon (too verbose?) so they said, well, just about every institution is corrupt, let’s go and show them some muscle. Young blood, too impulsive.

Who’s the liar? Me.

But just a moment, here are some more nuggets:

“All the four constituencies demanded by Imran Khan are already under scrutiny of election tribunals. Imran wants to save himself from embarrassment by only sticking to his demand of thumb impression verification which is not possible instead of demanding real methods which are more reliable and irrefutable to conduct audit of polls in these constituencies.”
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...allegations-II

But why this ‘march’ when the process was already well underway? You enlighten me please.

Quote:
When the Parliament shows the door to the people, it's the People's right to take to the streets. When the Parliament fails to safeguard the rights of the people, it's the people's right to take to the street.
Yeah, I understood you the first time. This is called mob rule. And I admitted I have nothing to say about it.

Quote:
What other solution do you propose when the Parliament has failed to do what it was supposed to do?
Refer above.

Quote:
Expect anything and everything from Shareef's party. Their respect for the law and constitution is such that they have assaulted the Supreme court and harassed the judges out of pure love once. That too when the verdict of a case which could have ultimately disqualified Nawaz from contesting elections was due.
I agree, young man. Nawaz family has a terribly history with a lot of crimes. So does Bhutto family. Certainly agree.

P.S. How very tragic. The mob seems to have lost its leaders who were supposed to ‘lead’ them from the front. Impulsive young men should learn something about the bitter end of such halla-gulla (Urdu).
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  #103  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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@ Muhammad Ali

Quote:
What this government is doing , attacking a peaceful protest .
Raiding the PM house and unleashing mob on the parliament (while assuring before the march that nothing will go beyond the red zone) can't really be called peaceful, can it?

Quote:
I remember , when Musharraf attacked Jamiah Hafsa ,but he had a reason to take that step i.e strong information about the presence of weapons .
Let's also not forget to compare this mob with the 2007 protests for the restoration of judiciary (something a peaceful protest looks like), and the treatment meted out to it by Musharraf dude.

@ Ranjha M S

Quote:
Today when TUQ and IK marchers of started moving towards PM house, govt ordered security forces to resist their advance, fired rubber bullets and tear gas. scenes in red zone have turned ugly, IG Islamabad has ordered mass arrest.

What consequences will it have for govt?
The situation does seem grim. And it will become worse if, God forbid, we end up with a few dead bodies. That I think will be the last nail in the government's coffin. Exactly what happened in 1977 with Bhutto, by the way.
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  #104  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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Originally Posted by Arsalan89 View Post
.





If you want to argue, be my guest. I can write a all day how PTI requested for an independent inquiry for the alleged rigging for over one and a half year.Pakistan People's Party and Jamat-e-Islami too accepted that the elections were rigged. Chaudary Nisar claimed in the parliament that over 50 to 60 thousand votes in every constituency were unverifiable.
Since you said something about court, What step did Nawaz Shareef take to form an independent inquiry into the grave matter? Would the courts automatically, through divine intervention, try and execute Shareef for rigging?

Govt conceded his 5 demands. He should have called off sit-in till the outcome of JC report,however IK & TUQ have taken out the last arrow from their quiver by disgracefully marching towards the PM house. Politicians seems to have become irrelevant--Now Its upto the uniformed Masters how they further design fate of this ill-fated Country.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjha M S View Post
Today when TUQ and IK marchers of started moving towards PM house, govt ordered security forces to resist their advance, fired rubber bullets and tear gas. scenes in red zone have turned ugly, IG Islamabad has ordered mass arrest.

What consequences will it have for govt?

Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results-- Dedicated to PML (N)
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Last edited by Amna; Sunday, August 31, 2014 at 11:01 AM.
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  #105  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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Raiding the PM house and unleashing mob on the parliament (while assuring before the march that nothing will go beyond the red zone) can't really be called peaceful, can it?
Yes they are with sticks and batons , but Police is not throwing flowers at them either .



Quote:
Let's also not forget to compare this mob with the 2007 protests for the restoration of judiciary (something a peaceful protest looks like), and the treatment meted out to it by Musharraf dude.

And , was Musharraf wrong ? .
We can now see the real face of our so loved ex CJ .
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  #106  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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I think Nawaz should just resign now. There's no point is continuing with this anarchy.
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  #107  
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Originally Posted by Gypsified View Post
I think Nawaz should just resign now. There's no point is continuing with this anarchy.
Yes . What is wrong with a resignation . He must be afraid , otherwise any other person could have done it 2 weeks before .

Army has got its own plans which are

1. Not stepping in until the situation becomes worse that people start demanding army .

2. They are not going to leave Nawaz and Shahbaz this time.
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  #108  
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Originally Posted by Gypsified View Post
I think Nawaz should just resign now. There's no point is continuing with this anarchy.
No other option left. Country is close to the point of no return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Ali Chaudhry View Post


Army has got its own plans which are

1. Not stepping in until the situation becomes worse that people start demanding army .

2. They are not going to leave Nawaz and Shahbaz this time.

The scripted story has entered the conflictual phase.
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Last edited by Amna; Sunday, August 31, 2014 at 11:00 AM.
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  #109  
Old Sunday, August 31, 2014
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Yes . What is wrong with a resignation . He must be afraid , otherwise any other person could have done it 2 weeks before .
There's a lot wrong with that, but I won't go into that. Let them have what they want and let the country go to dogs.
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Originally Posted by Invincible View Post
The scripted story has entered the conflictual phase.
Yes , it has actually entered its final stages . But , if still there is a third option for army i.e not to take a single step into the politics . Then , we cannot predict anything about the climax .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsified View Post
There's a lot wrong with that, but I won't go into that. Let them have what they want and let the country go to dogs.
Resignation would be for the well being of the people , or it will be just another story where Nawaz Shareef will be saying that i got some wrong advices from my own people , or like they betrayed me ; time will tell .

But , one thing is for sure that the person who had not given resignation in 1999 , will not be giving it this time -for sure .
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