Aoa all

I want suggestions and comments from all experienced and beginners (like me) about CSS, its merits and demerits and why are we really doing or should do CSS? I want to do CSS because of following reasons:

1)It will be an honour for me to do CSS and serve my country in which i have spent my life
2) It will enable me to get an honouable status in society
3) I will be able to live my entire life in this country on an honourable post, which i cannot get to in any other state of the world
4)Living with my family is also an advantage and having time for them
5)On an honourable position, i would not earn millions but will get peace of mind from the position and facilities i have
6)I would be able to get scholarships and invaluable experience.

These are the things i am looking from CSS. But a lot of people these days say that

1)Civil servants are no longer considered that esteemed in pakistan, based on the salary and facilities they get and honest people in civil services live hand to mouth lives
2)There are monopolies in civil services and only people with huge references get the group and postings of their liking. Usually people without references are thrown from one city to the other in postings
3)This job is reference based not performance based. Performance is not usually counted.
4)Doing CSS is a big risk these days. You devote at least 1-2 years of your life to CSS. This may leave you nowhere in terms of profession, if you do not suceed.

I want people to comment and help us all beginners, get a clear view of how civil servants these days live life and how satisfied are they with there profession and nature of work.

Also people with what sort of personality traits should attempt CSS or anyone with whatever background and personality interested in doing CSS should just go for it, if he believes he can do it.

AOA all!

I would like to appreciate your idea of starting this useful discussion.
Well, I want to share that I have decided to attempt this examination because I want to contribute to make this country a better place.

As far as getting desirable positions on reference basis, I have also heard the same stories but I have my hopes high that merit is something that can not be kept aside completely[]

I'll also like to add that, people willing to prepare for CSS should have the habit of working extremely hard.

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Sawera Tazeen

Yes indeed a good topic to discuss
what i think before giving merits and demerits of CSS ,we should know what is educational background of people who Compete for CSS

1.Mostly are People having Masters degrees or Simple Bachelors
these are those people who dont have any better opportunity for job or doing job that are not worthy one and to get an honorable job ,they spend their many years for dreaming CSS ,and many of them unfortunately flunk,no doubt Many people get Success.
Similarly many people having LLB or Arts background take the chance.
2.
Now people may arise Questions that many doctors,Engineers and MBA,s they also take part in CSS and get 30-40 % seats as well
i am agreed ,100 % agreed
But there are two to three categories of doctors and Engineers ,who take part in CSS
a) those doctors and Engineers ,who are not well employed or even employed.
Becoming a doctor or Engineer is not a sign that you will get a dreamy job.if we look at doctor life
a Dotor after spending his 7 years ( with House job) get a job with 20thousands salary and is considered very lucky if he gets the job because after simple MBBS ,its difficult to get a job,u will have to go for specialization and a lot of time is required for this specialization.
Many doctors after MBBS set a private clinic but in rural areas they may earn but in cities no one ask for MBBS rather prefer Specialist,
and there is very less increment in these 20,000 salary per year according to rules of Medical association.
Similary if you look at Engineers ,no dobt both doctors and Engineers ar intelligent
but because of random policies of Government ,gap between vacancies and Number of engineers is increasing
Engineers ,when they are in university ,they are highly proud that we are engineers( and must be proud) ,but unfortunately when they enter practical life ,they see the life closely.our government even dont know how many engineers are being produced and how many vacacenies are there.
Many average mind engineers dont get job because they dont have reference

so unemployment is also in Engineering field and many people in their session are unemployed or get a low worth job( with 8000 to 10000) salary

so this category of doctors and enginners go for CSS, put their efforts and get succeded

b)
2nd category that is very less are those doctors and engineers that are really eager to join CSS ,CSS is their dream so they get involved and get success,and even dont care for ground realities ,miss opprtunity for job and go for CSS
c)
3rd are those Doctors and engineers that have political background,army background ,bureacratic background ,they think that are born for role on illiterate society so they opt for CSS

Exception may be there but you all even doctors and engineers will see ,when they will get a golden opprtunity ,they will go for job no matter how much eager they were for CSS in their Academic carriers.

Quality of CSS
According to some surveys quality of CSS is reducing with the passage of time and this thing is shown by the result of CSS ,this result is even 5 % of passing students.
Reason is that Multinational Companies are offering dreamy job for Engineers and Management people so talent is going abroad through these multi national companies, because people think why should they spent 2-3years for CSS (preparation+exam+training) and this duration is for those who do CSS in first attempt
and if they get entered ,no facilities ,Corruption and even you are honest if u refuse to obey then result is like Iftikhar Chaudrry so these are just verbosity that i will be honest ,have patriotism so no one cares for that ,every one become part of system.
so average people are entering in CSS and they are not improving the system.

Merits of CSS
1. Government secure job
2. no doubt people give worth to buearocrates specially our illiterate Rural people who see Police constable as 2nd GOD.
3.authoruty although reduced but there is authority of CSP,s

Demerits of CSS
1.No proper facilities
2.life is uncertain
3.low salaries.
4.Corruption ful life
5. life is in tentions as poor governance in pakistan
6 authority od CSS is reduced due to Nazims.
7 People are getting awareness so they take worship these CSP,s and they go for better opportunity

all are welcomed for healthy discussion and sorry if any of my word hurt anyone

regards
M.Zaman( Project Engineer)

__________________
Thanks and Regards
M.Zaman
Operations Engineer

Right.......a healthy discussion is going on here....!!
If only 2nd class engrr or doctors are going for it then why a position holder in 2006 was a computer engrr from a university of America?.......Why the topper in 2005 was a scholarship student and gold medalist in UET lahore?
One of my known qualifier is a son of a big gun in UK....why he is here?
.................................................. ..............................Albeit,CSP are less esteemed, yet they are the backbone of our system.They are running the machinery of the country........Does a minister sitting in a office has any knowledge of the definite field and has decision making power?.........no...........Its CSPs who are sitting behind,making decisions.
So,in our society the importance of CSPs can never be ignored..............

As far as the current local bodies system is concerned that has deteriorated the powers of CSPs, it’s a total failure and only supporting Mushi government. Look at the current law and order situation, planning or price hykes………….Before all these were under CSPs in the form of DM or PSP.

References are used everywhere in this world ,even you can’t get a contract for oil extraction in Iraq on merit. Only cohorts and acolytes of Bush, Tony or other political stalwarts are doing this………we are no exception………!! But merit is always taken into account as it is a matter of running the machinery smoothly. You can place one or two screws loose but if all the screws are loose…..you can imagine the result…….!!

To conclude, I would say that one need to have a spirit and passion. So if you think you possess the abilities, the your country and its people are looking forward to you.

__________________
"A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done."

Actually people around here get offended very easily so I will not say much though I have no scarcity of arguments but the reality and facts are open to all. We can all see that how much our country progressed over the years and whats the standard of CSPs. There are many highly competent and gutsy people in the civil services and incidentally some of them are honest too but they are being handicapped by the overall system failure - the system which is based on corruption and vested interests. Though I dont blame the CSPs fully for everything but GOD knows that our country is run by the military and higher ranked CSPs, so who should we held responsible for everything that our country has suffered over the years??????????

Sorry if someone's hurt but please avoid getting personal because everyone has the right to have his own ideas...........

Regards.
Muhammad Aqib Ali.

Dear Omer
Topper of CSS 2005 ,Mr Tauseef Haider ,a uetian
i know him personaly.
He went to England after Completing Engg but he had to return back beacuse of death of his father,
so this is reason
2ndly there are some extreme people according to b category of my post whose mission is just CSS

__________________
Thanks and Regards
M.Zaman
Operations Engineer

Before going for and leaving you profession, you must clear yourself so that you would not regret on your decision.
There are three things for which one struggles:
• Respect
• Status and Protocol
• Money
As far as first two are concerned, they are abundant in civil services. But it lacks in money matters. But a CSP has to struggle only in early years of job, later on the perks and privileges and also the salary increase to enable him to lead a reasonable life.
Everything has its merits and demerits. All we need is to get the best people with brilliant minds in our civil services to serve the masses of the country.

__________________
"A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done."

good topic haider imam,

Agree with Zaman, Most of the doctors and Engineers consider theirself lucky as long as they are in college, but as soon as they come in practical life, their is no job according to their dreams.

Some of them go to abroad for specialization, other which don't have oppertunity, they need to have contented only at about 10,000. and if some one has extra ordinary stamina. he compete for CSS.

but in my personal opinion, i think it's very difficult to do CSS after spending 4 year in engineering uni or 5 year in medical uni...

doctors and engineer also consider it easy to compete for CSS rather for specialization, Because if they go abroad for specialization,
Wahan b unky liye koi phoolon k har pakar kar khara nahi hota, k ao babu jee. apka he ka intazar tha. rather they have to pass some courses, and fee for these courses in in lakhs. So they find it easy to compete for CSs.

yeh you are right

i think these merit are strong reason to choose CSS, to live in country like pakistan, authority is very necessary. isky bagair to koi apko aik disprin na pakray....

These demerits are found in almost every Government, not only in CSS,my brother in law was in Wapda, he left it becoz this job was full of corruption.
he asked me, should i leave a job, i asked him, leave it, you will find much better than it, he left it, and now he is in a telecommunication company, where almost time duration is more, but he is satisfied, that i m not doing any thing wrong....

But to me, the major benefit of CSS is that, you have authority to bring change, although at small level,
more over, although salaries are not much attractive, in this job, but you have many extra facilities, which makes you satisfied.


you r right.......

@ aqib..



Dont afraid, apko jo kahna hy, khul k kahin, apko bolnay ka haqq hy, logon ko ghuss kany ka haqq hy, so har kisi ko apna haqq istamal karna chahiye. M i right????

__________________
"Prejudice is the opinion without judgement"

Dear all
i am not saying that one should not compete for CSS
i dont say its a very bad thing
Dear all ,i encourage those MA,s and BA,s who struggle for CSS because i know they have no better job than CSS if they get.
So these people must go for CSS or PCS
My concern is that CSS is not an extra ordinary thing,CSS is not matter of so prestige that if u will do CSS ,people will come and make u salutes,every parents will have desire to send the proposal of their son/daughter to ur home and when u become a CSP ,world will be yours,
No Dear there is nothing like this.
U must see the ground realities.
i give an example of Engineer or doctor
everyone of us spends his/her 12 years with great efforts to reach Engineering university or medical colleges
So they enter ,work hard ,acquire their degrees in 4 years and 5 years.
and then doctor go for house job.
so if you count a doctor spend his 19 years and engineers 17 years to complete their respective degrees
So dear ones its a fact that those people who r doctors or engineers will verify that when we are in schools ,our parents urge to work hard so that we may get 700+ marks to take admission in good college and to go for F.Sc.our parents say that "Bas yah years hain mehnat kar lo phr zindage ban jai ge"
we work hard ,get good marks and then go for F.Sc ,and there also same statement by teachers "bas ab sirf two yaers hain ,parh lo,engineering main chalay gai carrier ban jai ga"
we again work hard ,luckily go for Engineering or medical after two or some people spend extra years to select in merit list,even some people take admission on self finance basis.
we feel very proud ,and when we go to our home towns ,we declare from very first day of our University life that i m doctor/engineer
again spend so many years in both engineering or medical
No take example you have completed ur engineering or MBBS after 4 and 7 years.and now we think that we hav become loyal prince
but when they enter in Market,again tough routine
hundreds people take test but two or three seats ,half on merit and half on huge reference
So take conclusion that Guys/Gals if you miss the opportunity of a job ,then go for CSS and no guarantee how many years it will take and will you be able to do or not.
So when you lose ur freshness/you are no more fresh engineers or doctors ,it will be very very difficult to find a job if even not good.
So now calcultae how many years you spend
17 years engineering+2years CSS= Minimum 19 years
or
19 years medical+2years CSS=mINIMUM 21 years
and where are you now?
begging for a job to managers/searching for tutions/doing job of marketing etc on low salary
so become realistic ,in the country like pakistan ,very job opportunity are less ,corruption is at peak,and available job most of on references
So Prestige is that when you are traveling by air all the times by company expenses
when you have ur personal Cars,when you have full furnished accomodation ,or when you high salary package ,when your company is sending u abroad for different courses, when u have a peaceful ,honest life
mental satisfaction/opportnity to serve ur parents and people to whom you love.
So guys dont waste ur time,complete ur studies in efficient way,and after study see possible ways to have nice one job.

here in Government job ,promotion is man based not performance based
so go for better opportunity
dont waste ur time.
if you want to serve ur country ,be honest in respecting fields
okey sorry if i hurt someone
Dear all i am not making u afraid
i am myself doing a dreamy job in multinational company
Best Regards
zaman

__________________
Thanks and Regards
M.Zaman
Operations Engineer

Hmm a very interesting discussion I must say. It seems the discussion is only based on engineers , doctors and CSP’s. Well I am BS in computer and I opted for CSS mainly because the jobs are quite low paying in private sector, timings are quite hectic, you do not have a life literally, job security is a major issue, and after a certain level of progress you just stop. A dead end for you. In private sector you are in a constant race to survive, I know a few people who spent 15 16 years of their lives in chasing money after doing their MBA. The time they lift their job which was around 40 45 years of age, they were earning more then a hundred thousand rupees. But they felt exhausted at this age and simply felt fed up of their mechanistic job. Same goes for Engineers who go to middle east and other places to earn but there comes a time when they say “I had it”. Doctors are no exception. I know a couple of guys and girls who when doing MBBS acted as if they were from Mars, but now when they are doing house job in govt. hospital and getting so little in poor working conditions they realize that it was not a bed of roses.
In these circumstances I am not saying that civil services are the best but at least they give you something which no other gives.
1. Job security (that is a major psychological factor)
2. Chance to grow (CSP’s if willing get chances to do more courses which greatly benefit them during job or after retirement, and they are free of cost from the best universities of the world.)
3. Corruption factor might not remain such a big issue. Unfortunately in Pakistan when ever the word bureaucracy comes we take its as synonym to Corruption. Its our nations stereo type thinking.
4. A civil services reforms plan is underway, if its recommendations are approved, CSP’s would get special pay packages, I heard atleast 40,000 p.m package for grade 17 officers has been suggested.
5. Don’t think of being a CSP as last resort to get a job, for most atleast for me it’s a stepping stone, to make new networks, make new friends, strong allies (which is totally legal  ) so that you can easily survive in Pakistan.
6. By becoming a CSP you get a chance to work for a lot of organizations after doing job, your experience at this level is quite valuable, think tanks, UN, multinational companies etc.

My Mentor told me all of this stuff to raise my moral and go for CSS, but all these benefits come with just one requirement. i.e. an ambition to rise above with the mindset that success takes time. Don’t expect that you would become DIG, DCO, Ambassador in a couple of years, it takes a lot of time no matter in which field you are docs, engineers, computer guys or management gurus. Patience is the key element to learn in professional life.