Why Polygamy is allowed in Islam? - Page 7

redmax · #61 Sunday, November 28, 2010

N.B

==> As was pointed out earlier, there is a dire need to discuss it objectively. Unless you do not put aside your sentiments, and do not refrain from personal attacks, you are prone to conceiving negative sense out of everything. It is strongly recommended to be impersonal in your approach!

Now, let's narrow down the discussion to bring it to a culmination. The core issue was that Islam allows polygamy (of course with certain limitation as prescribed in the above mentioned ayah). Some of us denied it and rest were entitled as 'Himayati'.

Now, let's analyze the remarks of rage, Jazib & Ahmed, the anti-polygamy squad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rage

I think if a husband fulfills the rights and needs of his wife and then legitimately go for second marriage, no objection and resistense would arise at all.
Allah Almighy is our creator and knows all ins and outs of our psyche. His defined rulings can not be faulty in any sense or at any time.
He gave the permission of polygamy alongwith its prerequisites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rage

@JazibRoomi
No one can deny the Islam's permission for polygamy but the need is to take it with all of its obligations as well.

I hardly find it in contrast to the conditions set by Islam under which polygyny is permissible. I have stated the same above. It should not be hard to admit then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

Polygamy "was" [read: is] permitted by Islam and that too was under very special circumstances.

It is still permitted under the circumstances and keeping in compliance with the prerequisites set by Islam (also agreed by rage above).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

If I get a chance, I would definitely work to include monogamy in our family law.

It has already been included in Indian State Law. Mind You! State law does not necessarily reflect Islamic Law notwithstanding claims of state to be a Islamic Republic or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

@ jazibRoomi:
Recently we watched on the TV, a guy from Sialkoat marrying two girls, both his cousins. They were invited to a talkshow and the wives seemed happy and said again and again that they had no issue sharing one husband etc.

Let me tell you an incident I heard from a pakistani girl working as a judge in UAE:
She went into a bank. There she happened to interact with a well-to-do, good looking affluent arab woman. They sat down, talked about this and that, socialized in a friendly way. After sometime the jolly arab woman asked the girl: You are so sweet and I like you a lot. Why don't you marry my husband and we will live like a family together and all?
Well, the girl was surprised to hear that.

In the above live example, both are women and both possessing two different psyches. What was a sweet prospect for one, was almost shocking for the other.

At the end its all about mentality, perceptions and understanding. Social norms, culture, environment, awareness play vital roles in defining the eventual psychology of the human mind. A kid raised in Africa won't share the values espoused by an American kid. Both will be different in their approaches towards life.
When something negative becomes a part of culture, we stop noticing its thrust and with the passage of time seem to accept it without objection and later it becomes a part of the morality of the next generation. Morality itself is taught. We believe God is one because we are taught that way. We haven't seen God, still we believe HE is there all the time. A kid born to idolatrous parents will find no fault with worshipping mere statues all his life because he is taught that way and its a part of his morality to do so.
A persistant belief about the existence of something when its not there is termed as DELUSION in Psychiatry; its to be corrected with anti-psychotic drugs. But a persistent belief in the existence of God, angels and Heaven and Hell is considered Emaan in religion.
I hope you understand the difference!

A lucid explanation. I hope it clarifies many misconceptions nourished by anti-polygamy squad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

Rage! If you are of the view that Quranic instructions are for all and sundry and diversity of thought should not be a matter then why don't you accept polygamy with an open heart? If women in Africa, Arabia and India can live with it why shouldn't you? Because the Quranic verses are for all and sundry and no exceptions right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

So you should have no problem if a husband loves one wife from the core of his heart. That does not make him a sinner because Allah Almighty has allowed it and as you said HE is the creator of you women and if HE allowed polygamy then HE knows very well what women deserve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

As far as polygamous men are concerned, whether they fulfill their rights and obligations or not, is a matter with Allah and for HIM to decide in the life hereafter. But for life over here, HE has allowed polygamy in clear and transparent words. Bear it! Your creator knows what you don't about yourself.
Islam is the same for the whole world. Then why a woman in UAE considers polygamy as an opportunity and why are you raising questions against it? Islam is same for you both, where lies the difference then?

Rage has already accepted it. I have quoted her posts above for evidence. Thank you doctor for elaborating it in simplest terms so that everybody here could grasp it easily. Now why shouldn't one live with it is purely a personal domain. Hence, it is left up to individual to do as he/she deems it suitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainy...

i am afraid that debate is getting personal....

Your observation was genuine. I hope nothing personal would come again

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainy

Firstly @rage

I am smelling bit of bias in your statement. Man is not the only one to be blamed here. Its the society that needs to be blamed for this attitude. Don't forget women are also part of this society and participated their level best in this male dominating thinking.

Here is a great need to differentiate between two things Islam and society. Islam has provided us all the prerequisites for a healthy society. We as part of society pic things of our interest(including men and women). Same is with the case of polygamy and you have very rightly summed up in other posts.

Dear rainy, I have further substantiated your stance and replied to rage too (look above).

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainy

I want to add something, quranic verses ARE for all and sundry now if somebody in America or India or Arabia follows or somebody in Malaysia doesn't its an issue of perception, brought up, environment etc. You must be knowing there are many things in our constitution but we dont follow. Does that nullify the constitution??? Islamic rulings are part of our constitution and its for all and its part of our emaan.

Thanks for making it further clear for men & women here to comprehend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

THAT THE WORDS OF GOD ARE SAME BUT THEIR INTERPRETATIONS COULD BE DIFFERENT. Even the translations of Quran by the great scholars like Yusuf Ali, pickthal and Shakir are slightly different from each other. Each scholar gave the translation according to his own knowledge of the Arabic and English language, understanding, perception and imagination and intention. For example let's study the translation of the following simple verse from Surah Fatiha about Siraat-e-Mustaqeem:
001.006
YUSUFALI: Show us the straight
way,
PICKTHAL: Show us the straight
path,
SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.
Now you can see the difference in words. And ladies and gentlemen different words mean different meanings, different perceptions and so on. The first two translators are asking God to show us the straight path/way while the 3rd translator is asking God to keep us on the right path (implying that as if we already are on the right path being born as Muslims MashAllah!).
Let me elucidate further. Synonymous words carry different connotations. WAY is never the same as PATH, and STRAIGHT could never be what RIGHT could be. WAY could be an attitude, a habit, a flaw as in this sentence where a father admonishingly shouts at his impudent son: MEND YOUR WAYS! YOU MORON.
A lover would say about his beloved: she has sweet ways.
If a css aspirant in islamabad asks his teacher to show him the STRAIGHT WAY to CSA then a wise teacher is supposed to reply like this: There are two ways leading to CSA: One way is to get books, guidance, tips and tricks, work hard and get through CE examination and that way get into CSA. Another way is to straightaway fill your car's fuel tank or buy yourself a Daewoo ticket to lahore and travel all the way on the motorway, reach lahore, find Walton Road and reach CSA.
There is a hell of a difference between the two ways mentioned above.
Now come to STRAIGHT and RIGHT. Both words are synonymous but their shades of meaning widely differ. A RIGHT path could be straight but a STRAIGHT path is not necessarily RIGHT. As a matter of fact the right path, the path of God Almighty is mostly twisted, tortuous, difficult (as its said that practising Taqwa is like walking barefoot on a thorny path). While a straight path implies the shortest route-- as the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. The path to Almighty is never short or easy or plain rather it takes courage, will, determination, sacrifice, compassion to walk that path. if it were an easy path, everybody would be treading it.
All the 3 translations, interpretations of the given verse by the most honorable of scholars are cent per cent correct but the translation of Shakir is "more appropriate" because he used the word RIGHT instead of STRAIGHT, and the word RIGHT carries moral connotations while the word STRAIGHT is more used in symmetrical, dimensional and directional senses. Right direction and not straight direction may lead us to our destination.
To substantiate my logic let's focus on the word MUSTAQEEM. I don't know a word of Arabic but it sounds to me that the word Mustaqeem is somehow related to the words Mustaqil, Mutaqi, Taqwa. Yeah got it! Taqwa must be the central theme of the verse(it indeed is). So my dear the foundation of Taqwa is always righteousness(derived from RIGHT).
Having read and hopefully understood the above discourse, its evident that our knowledge of language, our perceptions, our understanding, our observation, our intention and determination play pivotal roles in constructing our psychological attitudes and make us what we are, how we think, how we believe, how we act. (Positive)
So the words of God are the same for all and sundry (Rage's assertion) but all and sundry are not the same for God (my observation). There are pious and saints and there are rapists and killers. Why the difference when the words of God are the same for all and sundry? Don't ask why now, I have given you the RIGHT answer.

Simply Right.

The Simplest Conclusion (Avoiding all controversies & coming to the terms which are mutually agreed by everyone here):

* Allah Almighty has PERMITTED limited polygamy, NOT ORDERED.
(Please do not interchange the meanings of the two words.)
* A polygamist becomes neither a sinner nor a saint by this act.

I think I have made myself clear to obviate being misunderstood by anyone again.

Disclaimer: This is neither an advocacy of this phenomenon nor an outward rejection. This is an attempt (impersonal in approach) at bringing harmony among peoples of various mindset.

rage · #62 Sunday, November 28, 2010

@redmex

here it seems a little bit misinterpretation on your part by placing me in anti-polygamy squad.
The idea in all of my comments was simply to make the respected commentators put emphasize on obligations/conditions attached to the permission of polygamy as well rahter than simply discourse upon why it is not openly accepted in our society.
Some members including Witchdoctor quoted beautiful examples of Arab countries or so where polygamy is a part of their social set up.

Polygamy is allowed like numerous other permissions in Islam. And why it is allowed it is also well elaborated in Quran.

The only point of resistense is, we just talk about our rights, not our obligations. And , majority of members focused on the right of having more than one wives and backed their views up with certain examples, meanwhile they totally neglected the obligations and requisites attached to that permission.

Our distorted social structure is more because of our neglection towards our duties about which Witchdoctor amazingly said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

As far as polygamous men are concerned, whether they fulfill their rights and obligations or not, is a matter with Allah and for HIM to decide in the life hereafter. But for life over here, HE has allowed polygamy in clear and transparent words. Bear it! Your creator knows what you don't about yourself.
Islam is the same for the whole world. Then why a woman in UAE considers polygamy as an opportunity and why are you raising questions against it? Islam is same for you both, where lies the difference then? Say it yourself and you will help bring down my rage.

That is the only point of objection. He has just focussed on the given permissions and overlooked the duties and obligation by simply saying it the matter of Allah and him.
If the same attitude is taken by everyone here, where will you get your rights, when everyone will just bother his/her rights only?

JazibRoomi · #63 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmax

N.B
* Allah Almighty has PERMITTED limited polygamy, NOT ORDERED.
(Please do not interchange the meanings of the two words.)
* A polygamist becomes neither a sinner nor a saint by this act.

I think I have made myself clear to obviate being misunderstood by anyone again.

Disclaimer: This is neither an advocacy of this phenomenon nor an outward rejection. This is an attempt (impersonal in approach) at bringing harmony among peoples of various mindset.

First of all, I must not only appreciate you but must thank you for being objective. And I think we all should adopt this approach

Now coming to the topic:

Again I emphasize that polygamy was permitted by Allah. But Allah's words clearly show that He is more inclined towards monogamy.

Now let me explain further that why I am of the view that we should now abolish polygamy

1- Remember this is nothing new. We have already abolished "slavery which "was" permitted by Allah. But Allah's words clearly show that He never liked slavery but He left the decision on us humans. Same is the case with polygamy.

2- There is no serious problem male shortage. Allah still has His ways of maintaining almost equal population of male and female (even after the death of millions of men in world wars it is very surprisingly still almost equal. Laikin agar kabhi bhut baray level per aisa hoa to main polygamy ki favor bhi karo ga. (See command tasks below)

3- Most women are against polygamy because it creates gender discrimination (unequal social rights for men and women)

4- In our country, it is one of the major factors responsible for women exploitation and male dominance (statistics already given).

5- We are at the edge of facing a hunger and population explosion. Usama kay baap ki tarha 10 shadi or 51 bachay paida karo gay tou bachay tou kharab hoon gay hi sath main Aabaadi kay masail bhi paida hoon gay.

6- Dosri shadi karnay walay ziada tar mardo ki niat kharab hoti hay. Awal baat tou yeah kay koi kisi aorat ko support karnay kay liye us say shadi nahi karta. Or agar kissi widow ko support hi karna hay to badlay main uska jism mangnay koi achi baat tou nahi. Support karnay kay or bhi tareeqay hain.

Now I ask you to take some command tasks:

1- Suppose it is the end of the third world war. The only humans left include two women and 12 men. Now how will you devise the family structure of this society in a way that is not sinful?

2- Suppose the situation is reverse. There are two men and 12 women. What will be your decision now?

3- Suppose you were born to Adam. How would you apply the Quranic Law that "Your sisters are not legal for you"?

These three examples are to show that when we say that Quran is for all times and for all and sundry, we have been being over simplistic. We are allowed to use our wisdoms as well. Is say darna nahi chaheye.

Rasool ka Irshaad hay,"Agar tum main say koi ijtehaad karay or sahi decision lay tou us kay liye 2 ajar hain or agar koi ijtehaad karay or galat decision lay us kay liye 1 ajar hay kion kay us nay ijtehaad tou kya". Bukhari ki Hadees hay. Reference maango gay tou mil jaye ga.

Witchdoctor · #64 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Rage! Rage! Why don't you come of age! You totally misunderstood my standing. You flabbergasted me when you asserted that culture, perceptions, attitudes, exceptions do not matter at all and that the words (commands) of God should be the same for each and everyone throughout the world. Your mentality at this very point is in sync with that of the Talibans' who are following an extremist interpretation of the Holy Quran and they believe its for all and sundry and wishing to impose and implement it in the whole country and then the whole world regardless of the cultural and intellectual diversity and exceptions.
And don't blame me!
There is a Czech proverb: To marry once is a duty, twice a folly, thrice-- a madness.
That's right but have you seen how marvellously beautiful are Czech women? One is enough for more than a lifetime.
Kidding!

rage · #65 Sunday, November 28, 2010

@JazibRoomi
First I would like to admit that your revolutionary approach unwillingly inspires me. You are right that Ijtehad should definitely be there where needed in keeping with the dramatic changes taking place all around us.

But as far the polygamy is concerned, your devised way out does not seem to be fully appropriate and plausible. Abolishing polygamy would never be a good solution as being human we can't speculate all possible society dynamics that may bring different intricacies before us in case we rule out this option.

As you said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

Dosri shadi karnay walay ziada tar mardo ki niat kharab hoti hay. Awal baat tou yeah kay koi kisi aorat ko support karnay kay liye us say shadi nahi karta. Or agar kissi widow ko support hi karna hay to badlay main uska jism mangnay koi achi baat tou nahi. Support karnay kay or bhi tareeqay hain.

Its true that concept of polygamy is misconcieved in our society. Males here just use it as a tool for female suppression, to seek temptation etc. but when you say,

'Or agar kissi widow ko support hi karna hay to badlay main uska jism mangnay koi achi baat tou nahi. Support karnay kay or bhi tareeqay hain.'

Now tell me, What would this kind of support be constituted in a society like ours, where an innocent women is killed even on a suspect of being in an illicit relation with a male.
Again the victim would be that woman who gets any kind of support from a man with which she has no legal relation. This support will become instead a problem for her.

The problem in fact is not due to the permission of polygamy. That permission is rightly justified in certain situations that still are prevalent in this modern age.

As you described,

Quote:

3- Most women are against polygamy because it creates gender discrimination (unequal social rights for men and women)

Yes, its no doubt resisted by females in our society, but its not being married with more than one woman than creates this discrimination instead its the wrong manipulation of this permission by us that makes it a mess.
Having more than one wives equitably in a just specified manner, no discrimination would happen.

Just think, even if a monogamous man does not care for his wife and her rights liable to him, would it not be a gender discrimination? would it not be unjust? Even if we rule out polygamy, women are yet discriminated in various other ways.

But yes, this dicrimination get worsen by adding the option of polygamy, particularly in our society, because We percieve it only be a way of pleasure and dominance over females..

Irony is, males who go for second or third marrige in our society, most of the part do so because thay do not like their first wife with an innocent pretext that they married on their parents' will so, they do not find any attraction or understanding with their wives. Therefore, they get married second time and mostly do not even bother to look back to their first wife. So, they just use this permission to make their own way without paying heed to the fact that they still have responsibilities towards their first wives.

Here I ask, Does Allah permitted polygamy to cater this situation?

Unfortunately, we pick everything in a peacemeal way.
Where we find any relaxation in religion we start quoting it as a reference, and where we get any comfort in society and culture, we overlook religious ruling and start calling ourselves modern by adopting those unIslamic values.

There will always be one or the other problem unless we adopt one way comprehensively.

rage · #66 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

Rage! Rage! Why don't you come of age! You totally misunderstood my standing. You flabbergasted me when you asserted that culture, perceptions, attitudes, exceptions do not matter at all and that the words (commands) of God should be the same for each and everyone throughout the world. Your mentality at this very point is in sync with that of the Talibans' who are following an extremist interpretation of the Holy Quran and they believe its for all and sundry and wishing to impose and implement it in the whole country and then the whole world regardless of the cultural and intellectual diversity and exceptions.
And don't blame me!
There is a Czech proverb: To marry once is a duty, twice a folly, thrice-- a madness.
That's right but have you seen how marvellously beautiful are Czech women? One is enough for more than a lifetime.
Kidding!

Infact there is some communication fault that we misunderstood each other.
When I said that Allah's ruling is same for all and sundry, actually I did not mean the way you got it.

I replied the statement by you where you said to this effect that there would be an exception of women that would not mind sharing their husbands with other women.

So, I just told you that if polygamy is allowed by Allah and one legitimately goes for it, then it should be accepted by all of the females not just exceptions.

Yeah, cultural, social, economic, emotional, psychological etc. there are hundereds of differences in this world, that I do not deny at all. But what is validated by Allah, whethers you likes it or not, you must Accept it.
There is no such condition that if you are from Africa then you may speak lie with impunity, but in Pakistan you would be charged.
That was What I said that Allah's ruling is same for All And Sundry. Allah has not discriminated His Rules for cultural , regional or such differences.

redmax · #67 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

First of all, I must not only appreciate you but must thank you for being objective. And I think we all should adopt this approach.

You are welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

Now coming to the topic:

Again I emphasize that polygamy was permitted by Allah. But Allah's words clearly show that He is more inclined towards monogamy.

Now let me explain further that why I am of the view that we should now abolish polygamy

1- Remember this is nothing new. We have already abolished "slavery which "was" permitted by Allah. But Allah's words clearly show that He never liked slavery but He left the decision on us humans. Same is the case with polygamy.

2- There is no serious problem male shortage. Allah still has His ways of maintaining almost equal population of male and female (even after the death of millions of men in world wars it is very surprisingly still almost equal. Laikin agar kabhi bhut baray level per aisa hoa to main polygamy ki favor bhi karo ga. (See command tasks below)

3- Most women are against polygamy because it creates gender discrimination (unequal social rights for men and women)

4- In our country, it is one of the major factors responsible for women exploitation and male dominance (statistics already given).

5- We are at the edge of facing a hunger and population explosion. Usama kay baap ki tarha 10 shadi or 51 bachay paida karo gay tou bachay tou kharab hoon gay hi sath main Aabaadi kay masail bhi paida hoon gay.

6- Dosri shadi karnay walay ziada tar mardo ki niat kharab hoti hay. Awal baat tou yeah kay koi kisi aorat ko support karnay kay liye us say shadi nahi karta. Or agar kissi widow ko support hi karna hay to badlay main uska jism mangnay koi achi baat tou nahi. Support karnay kay or bhi tareeqay hain.

Dear, it's much of the repetition which has already been answered by several people above. Lastly, and more rationally by rage. My humble request would be to avoid tautology as it slowly destroys the ingenuity in us (which you had cautioned me erstwhile in some other thread).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

Now I ask you to take some command tasks:

Yet again, some new debate

. Since you have asked me, now let me give you the simplest solutions to which you may agree or not. You have the right to disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

1- Suppose it is the end of the third world war. The only humans left include two women and 12 men. Now how will you devise the family structure of this society in a way that is not sinful?

Firstly, It's a vague question. Who out of all 14 people is/was married is unclear.

Secondly, also unclear is their religions and beliefs.

Third, and most important their ages.

Now taking it from your point of view, which I assume, would be that all are Muslims & unmarried and also averagely in their 20 to 40s. Now, the clause of multiple marriages is to come into effect.

I will give them free hand. Those men who would be lucky enough to earn the consent of woman or women may get married to them (not more than four). If a woman at her own will wants to stay alone unmarried, she wouldn't be urged to enter into any contract. This applies to men too if they want to limit the number of wives and/or do not entertain any proposal, they are at their own will. (which is a least possibility though

)

You see its very complex. Until & unless you do not determine their ages, beliefs and consent, you cannot forcibly push anyone like a herd to get into the house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

2- Suppose the situation is reverse. There are two men and 12 women. What will be your decision now?

The answer I have given to your first question applies here as well.

3- Suppose you were born to Adam. How would you apply the Quranic Law that "Your sisters are not legal for you"?

Allah Almighty is the ultimate authority. His orders are applicable since the moment they were issued. The order of your 'sisters not legal for you' was revealed later on, not at the times of Adam (A.S).

If for the sake of argument, the order was issued during Adam (A.S) times, I being a descendant of Adam (A.S), would have OBSERVED that order and complied without crying. It is because of the faith in Him, He knows what we don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

These three examples are to show that when we say that Quran is for all times and for all and sundry, we have been being over simplistic. We are allowed to use our wisdoms as well. Is say darna nahi chaheye.

Use your wisdom to the extent that keeps you in harmony with your beliefs (many would disagree). I am not talking about the pre-Islamic beliefs when people worshiped idols. I am not even talking about modern people who flaunt their atheistic beliefs. I for one, being a Muslim, take pride in my beliefs and have no regret or repentance. Therefore I reiterate this that one should use his/her wisdom in finding out the applicability of Islamic Shariah rather than attempting to repeal it. I recall a line from Marlowe's play 'Dr. Faustus' in which he stated;

"The mind is to its own place, and in itself, can make a Heaven out of hell and hell out of heaven."

Therefore it would very wise if we think wisely

Quote:

Originally Posted by rage

its not being married with more than one woman than creates this discrimination instead its the wrong manipulation of this permission by us that makes it a mess.
Having more than one wives equitably in a just specified manner, no discrimination would happen.

Just think, even if a monogamous man does not care for his wife and her rights liable to him, would it not be a gender discrimination? would it not be unjust? Even if we rule out polygamy, women are yet discriminated in various other ways.

It really inspires to me read your rationale now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rage

Unfortunately, we pick everything in a peacemeal way.
Where we find any relaxation in religion we start quoting it as a reference, and where we get any comfort in society and culture, we overlook religious ruling and start calling ourselves modern by adopting those un-Islamic values.

There will always be one or the other problem unless we adopt one way comprehensively.

And if you allow me to append to it, I would once more lay my emphasis on 'Adopting the Islamic way comprehensively' rather than ill-comprehending it which leads to nothing but deviation from the 'Right' path very rightly elucidated by witchdoctor in his/her post.

JazibRoomi · #68 Sunday, November 28, 2010

@rage
please aik serious reason bata do sirf aik line main jis say sabit ho kay polygamy ki permission zaroor honi chaheye. Sahi lagi tou forun maan loon ga. main aik genuin learner hoon.

or please wo na batana jo main statistics say galat sabit kar chuka.

or yeah bhi zahan main rakhna kay app ko husband app hi ki reason ap kay samnay paish kar sakta hay.

and thanks for the comments.

@redmex
Quran ki izzat karni chaheye laikin over simplified statements dainay jaisay quran main her cheez ka ilam hay ... log is ko manipulate kartay hain or hamari generation to is manipulation ki sab say bari victum hay

finally, yaar psychlogical test or interview ki date qareeb aa chuki hain so i cannot post detailed reply. sorry redmax ................. laikin yaad rahay film abhi baqi hay meray dost

redmax · #69 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

yeah bhi zahan main rakhna kay app ko husband app hi ki reason ap kay samnay paish kar sakta hay.

Why do people invoke one's sentiments despite several reminders that this discussion has to be impersonal and objective?

Do we need more lessons to learn to follow the rules of the game?

It's height of ignorance one can achieve especially when one claims something i.e

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

main aik genuin learner hoon.

and in action do exactly opposite to that. If you were a serious learner, you would have learned much from above discussion and adhered to the reiterated rules that morality and ethics follow. Instead, you repeated your arguments, made personal attacks, narrated an obscene story and what not!! (I do not even want to quote what you have posted above in some of your posts).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

@redmex
finally, yaar psychlogical test or interview ki date qareeb aa chuki hain so i cannot post detailed reply. sorry redmax ................. laikin yaad rahay film abhi baqi hay meray dost

Still,

Wish you luck!

rainy... · #70 Sunday, November 28, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

please aik serious reason bata do sirf aik line main jis say sabit ho kay polygamy ki permission zaroor honi chaheye. Sahi lagi tou forun maan loon ga. main aik genuin learner hoon.

or please wo na batana jo main statistics say galat sabit kar chuka.

or yeah bhi zahan main rakhna kay app ko husband app hi ki reason ap kay samnay paish kar sakta hay.

actually it was very interesting thing so if you dont mind i want to say something...

Quote:

please aik serious reason bata do sirf aik line main jis say sabit ho kay polygamy ki permission zaroor honi chaheye. Sahi lagi tou forun maan loon ga. main aik genuin learner hoon.

after reading this i am feeling as if abhi tak shayad koi comedy film chal rahi thi yahan....

Quote:

or please wo na batana jo main statistics say galat sabit kar chuka.

it reminded me of a teacher of mine. He often used to prove things that never existed. sabit wo cheeze hoti hai jis ka koi wajood hota hai...ya phr phr agar kuch ho bhi or koi convince bhi ho jaey

....no body seems convinced here...but yes some people are impressed by your argument building style...

Quote:

or yeah bhi zahan main rakhna kay app ko husband app hi ki reason ap kay samnay paish kar sakta hay.

recently i was talking to some woman and she was very much worried thinking that her husband was involved in someone. At first husband denied any such thing....but he was not paying attention, wasn't giving her due attention, remained busy with mobile phone and computer. She dint had a strong backing nor any strong educational base to support herself and her kids in case of divorce. i was thinking what will she do if husband goes for second marriage. But let me tell you one thing if i place myself at that place i'l definitely accept my hubby's second marriage. In fact i'l encourage him. You know why...

first of all i hate zaberdasti ki attention....so i'll allow him to go and marry the one he wants...and also this thing will give right to the woman who is involved in extra marital affair( i dont think i have to elaborate the status given by our society in such cases). But marriage will give her a legitimate position.

second concern is about kids. Why should they suffer??? they need emotional and financial security that only a father can give. In most cases i have seen kids being attached to the father and vice versa. So this decision of remaining in the marriage relation will also help in a better brought up...Single parenting requires a lot of strength and yet you can never assure gud results. Western society is a living example....

Two other options are also available. Divorce or to force him not to marry again. But simply i cant understand agar dosri shadi ko rule our bhi ker dain to kya kisi ko bandh k rakha ja sakta hai???

suppose if polygamy isn't thr(hypothetically speaking) then such a women will either have to go back to the parents and parents are not in a position to support her with kids. She is not ready to leave her children. What will you suggest???

Islam has also given another solution if she cant accept second marriage and that is to get the divorce and to go for second marriage. It depends on her choice what she likes and what seems more feasible. But irony is that our society is so much distorted that we even dont value a women who marries second time. So my dear brother first of all i think your qualifications are not sufficient to accept you as a mujtahid, secondly the society is not in a position to digest the solution devised by you.

And most important thing is that the Creator has already devised the solutions. Don't try to reinvent the wheel...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Religion Of Islam	MUKHTIAR ALI	Islamiat	3	Friday, April 03, 2020 10:31 AM
What do today's Muslims need????	Najabat	Islam	1	Thursday, June 28, 2018 08:11 AM
Islamic Information	safdarmehmood	Islamiat	4	Thursday, June 28, 2018 08:09 AM
Essay on "Women and Conversion to Islam"	Perhar	Essay	2	Monday, April 19, 2010 03:42 AM
World Religions	Snobbish	General Knowledge, Quizzes, IQ Tests	0	Friday, June 15, 2007 11:39 AM

The Following User Says Thank You to redmax For This Useful Post:
Abid Mehboob (Sunday, January 09, 2011)

The Following User Says Thank You to JazibRoomi For This Useful Post:
pisceankhan (Saturday, August 09, 2014)

The Following User Says Thank You to rainy... For This Useful Post:
redmax (Sunday, November 28, 2010)