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  #11  
Old Sunday, May 24, 2015
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The answer is big yes. Intelligence agents are unsung heroes, we never get to know what miraculous jobs they do. We hear about police, FIA and rangers nabbing criminals but most of intelligence operations are done clandestine. Despite of the fact that RAW, MOSSAD & KHAD want to do as much harm to Pakistan as possible and it is still on the map of world it is due to intelligence agencies of Pakistan. You can say that FATA operation was result of besieging the terrorists but just consider Karachi operation that with how much surgical precision people are being caught. I remember in 2008 & 2009 every other day a bomb was detonated. In some days 3-4 blasts. But today there is peace to greater extent. Zardari and MQM alliance was in power for last 5 years term but but each day 7-14 persons were killed in Karachi as if they were insects (from perspective of Zardari & Altaf). Today Karachi is much safer place. This difference if due to the fact the genuine soldiers like Raheel Sharif and Rizwan Akhtar are at helm of affairs. In spite of all this we have some people in country who point fingers to intelligence agencies particularly ISI for no reason. Killing of Sabeen Memood is a solid instance of this in which ISI had nothing do with. Intelligence agencies are not usually criticized to their performance rather for missing persons and extra judicial killings. I can not comment on what is happening in Baluchistan but in interior Sindh an anti-Pakistan party Jeay Sindh works ferociously against Pakistan and want to liberate Sindh. It is a fact that these nationalists are being funded by the enemies of Pakistan like India & Israel. Sometimes you will be stunned at what slogans they yell at their gathering against Pakistan which even I can not write here. Same is the case with MQM who are their to destabilize Karachi. Consider yourself what would you do to persons who openly work against law of land, yell for hate of country, side with the interest of enemy states do terrorist operations. We all know the dynamic of our country and how weak and prolonged judicial process is. I am sure you will arrive at similar solutions

P.S: Before you write anything remember your nation, your nationality and whom do they defend (us and Pakistan) and this is a public forum accessible worldwide.
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Old Sunday, May 24, 2015
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@Last island
That is no mistake to do mistake,that is a mistake to repeat mistake.yes I committed series of mistakes and I am apologizing for this.
But I thought you also need some correction.
you mentioned : it seems your posts appear to be Content written with a disturbed mind".
Let me correct you, content writing specifically for a website focuses on a particular topic,is easy to read,contains cluster of information and laid out in bullet points.But contrary to my all posts, they are poorly written without following proper mechanism.Can I ask another thing:Are you psychologist ? Because according to you I am writing with disturb mind so,if am writing in content form(in proper format)than how is It possible for me to be perterbed?.your object predicate contradicts the stance by own self.Because a disturbed mind never write in contents format.
Thanks for correction and I will try my level best to follow the pattern.
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  #13  
Old Sunday, May 24, 2015
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Post Isi

Quote:
The answer is big yes.
Let see how "big" the arguments will be to support "yes."

Quote:
Intelligence agents are unsung heroes, we never get to know what miraculous jobs they do.
Few of the agents, yes; however, if you are rendering the whole picture, I am sure the "ex-intelligence" agent who disclosed the information regarding Osama Bin Laden to United States for few million dollars must be included in the "unsung heroes." Obviously, OBL's elimination was imperative, but disclosing something "miraculously" to others for money does not make someone a hero.

Quote:
We hear about police, FIA and rangers nabbing criminals but most of intelligence operations are done clandestine.
Plus:
Quote:
Intelligence agencies are not usually criticized to their performance rather for missing persons and extra judicial killings. I can not comment on what is happening in Baluchistan but in interior Sindh an anti-Pakistan party Jeay Sindh works ferociously against Pakistan and want to liberate Sindh.
Don't you think you are validating the episode of "missing persons" by using the word "clandestine." Furthermore, how would you justify that one person is criminal or not without even bringing him to justice? Or are you trying to say that intelligence agencies have a right to pass justice "clandestinely" based on their findings? If that is the case, I am sure those who lynch minorities upon blasphemy have a right to pass justice on roads "openly" instead of "clandestinely."

Moreover, how could you evaluate the whole scenario by ignoring the situation in Baluchistan by saying "I cannot comment on what is happening in Baluchistan..."? Don't you think Baluchistan is the integral part of Pakistan as well, just like Sindh? It just like solving a mathematical equation by rubbishing all the critical variables until you get your satisfactory result, which may be wrong, but that surely gives you some sort of satisfaction for a while.


Quote:
In spite of all this we have some people in country who point fingers to intelligence agencies particularly ISI for no reason.
For no reason? Have you forgotten Dec 16 massacre in Peshawar? What about attack on the Ismaili community on May 13?


Quote:
I remember in 2008 & 2009 every other day a bomb was detonated. In some days 3-4 blasts. But today there is peace to greater extent.
I also remember that in 2008 and 2009, Pakistan did not lodge any big scale operation like Zarb-e-Azb and the action plan like NAP. What I am getting is that in 2008 and 2009, Intelligence agencies were either non-operational or sleeping.

Admit, that time intelligence agencies made blunders; so did our armed forces.

Quote:
This difference if due to the fact the genuine soldiers like Raheel Sharif and Rizwan Akhtar are at helm of affairs.
Yes, General Raheel is doing an incredible job; however, his involvement in every matter ranging from politics to judiciary will definitely affect democracy in future.

Plus point: I DO commend his endeavours for alleviating terrorism from Pakistan.

Quote:
anti-Pakistan party Jeay Sindh works ferociously against Pakistan and want to liberate Sindh. It is a fact that these nationalists are being funded by the enemies of Pakistan like India & Israel. Sometimes you will be stunned at what slogans they yell at their gathering against Pakistan which even I can not write here. Same is the case with MQM who are their to destabilize Karachi. Consider yourself what would you do to persons who openly work against law of land, yell for hate of country, side with the interest of enemy states do terrorist operations. We all know the dynamic of our country and how weak and prolonged judicial process is. I am sure you will arrive at similar solutions
For decades, people have been killed there for various reasons, affiliations and nexuses. Blaming one person and one party for all the turmoil happening in Sindh is utter nonsense. Yeah, every country, every organisation, everybody wants to exterminate Pakistan; for that, they are working day and night, spending their all resources to dismember Pakistan in general and Sindh in particular; however, thanks to our intelligences agencies for saving the "piece of land." Come on! What about the people living there? It is because of their struggles and their sacrifices which bind us together until now. If that is not the case, I am sure Pakistan could have lost its huge pieces of land right after independence when intelligence agencies were not that brawn, advanced and powerful. Keep in mind, in every area of every country, a small (insignificant) chunk always hates its respective country.

Also, stop blaming individuals.

Apart from all disagreement, I really respect and love my intelligence agencies. However, whenever they do something suspicious or malicious, it should be us first who have to raise questions about them, not any international news firm or our enemies. That is how we can become one of the best nations.

Regards.
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  #14  
Old Sunday, May 24, 2015
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@Islamabadkid
well,would you like to explain Apsacs killings in Peshawar.Here you are misinterpreting or ignorant of reality.According to my limited knowledge it was forewarned by isI that a grand terrorist attack is suspected.Don't sneek out blame game on isi.Its your police that was incapacitated to bastion that raid.What has happened in Deraghazi khan jail incidence.
Can you call intelligence agencies failure?
Develop maturity and come up with proof.Don't shoot arrows in the sky?
Secondly ,what do you know about OBL operation, it was pretext to defame isi and establishment ,and a plethora of extreme fallacies. OBL was not killed in abbotabad operation?He was died down by natural death,as he was suffering from renal failure.(I think so I will have to shut my mouth because I am crossing my limit ,but any way BBC has confirmed that OBL was expired by renal failure and in 2003.
(check it out is it true or false)Otherwise I am ready to provide the source.
Than sectarian comes,yes isi s right wing is meant for that purpose.But remember only blaming this institution is a grand mistake.Because what is the role of political parties like PML(N), Ji and ANP.Here reciprocity works or in other words "tit for tat".Political parties are begging vote from fanatics and in turn terrorist parties are handed over to Golf fundings.Tell me law enforcement agencies are perpetrating the plot to ablaze the houses of Christians in Lahore.
Check it out,What was pashas stance in supreme court on this sensitive issue.Than how can you justify Memo scandle by Hussain Haqqani!

Regarding missing person in Balochistan,you need in depth analysis:
I don't bother your self made rudimentary remarks.justify Ziarat incidence and bolan medical complex incidence.It was again forewarned but tell me what's your police was doing and was your police competent enough to oose out terrorists from bolan complex.

in Balochistan who is blood shedding and to whom.Some hints ,a Canadian citizen Ahmar masti is running an organization Ak -47 ,This organization is equivalent to MQM in Karachi.and ironic enough the person is calling Mala yousaf zai as baloch (even an illiterate person knows very well that she is pathan not baloch)This person is also co hosting a morning show in Canada.So propogating a false propaganda in media and for rest visit my previous post.
.When comes NATO libertarian,why we got dumb and silent?See Army chief in April visited Washington ,provided sufficient prove of RawS and even natos involvement in Baloch insurgency.Have you heard any such precedented speech from interior minister and Pm.I think so just visit Webster treply from internet.
In contemporary crisis ,isi deserves respect and I am appreciating it.Because putting a strict vigilance on drug trafikers is ANF(anti norcotic forces)s responsibility.is I was tarnished by zia not contemporary DG isi.
What about the remaining agencies,kindly elaborate your stance ,as I wanted to know who is who and what is what?May be some archetype observations can help me a lot in reshaping my thoughts.
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  #15  
Old Monday, May 25, 2015
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Post Intelligence Agencies

Let me start off with the following remark:

Quote:
Develop maturity and come up with proof.Don't shoot arrows in the sky?
Are you asking yourself that you should not shoot arrows in the sky? In order to have a healthy debate, first learn how to talk/debate, and then learn how to use a specific punctuation mark in what situations. Why? because we are not having discussion face to face, where I could simply judge what you are trying to say from your facial expressions and the tone.

Let me assume that you are unaware of the notion "healthy debate"; therefore, I hope your "maturity" will not let you "spit" more "mature" notions in future, after reading my point of view.

Quote:
well,would you like to explain Apsacs killings in Peshawar.Here you are misinterpreting or ignorant of reality.
Oh, and one other thing, stop portraying yourself as Mr. know-it-all and labelling others as the ignorants, which after reading your whole post I deduced.

Now let me answer to "your" questions, so as to satiate "your maturity", which I believe will get a little bit "immature" after reading this.

Quote:
According to my limited knowledge it was forewarned by isI that a grand terrorist attack - APSAC attack- is suspected.Don't sneek out blame game on isi.Its your police that was incapacitated to bastion that raid.What has happened in Deraghazi khan jail incidence.
Can you call intelligence agencies failure?
Yes, I am pretty much aware of that forewarning of ISI. Let me present two perspectives here.

The first perspective says that using what resources they get all of the information? If they already know that something "will" happen, and "that" particular group will make it happen, then why did not they take precautionary measures by highlighting the whole "raid" to Army, which then was, and is, already busy making the Operation Zarb-e-Azb successful by exterminating all the root elements behind terrorism? If they knew all about it, they should have taken it seriously by notifying armed forces; and we could have saved our hundreds of bright stars of our future.

Another perspective tells it was obvious that they(terrorists) will target Army's schools, offices, personnels, families etc. in retaliation for the operation lodged against them. So it was pretty much obvious and natural that ISI had to parcel out warning letters to all the military based organisations about the threat, whether it was APSAC(all over the country), AFIC hospital, POF Wah Cantt, GHQ Rawalpindi, or NUST Islamabad etc. If that general notification is what you are alluding, then it clearly shows the incompetence of intelligence agencies in that regard. How? They were not even able to identify where and when a horrendous attack would happen.

In both perspectives, there is a question mark on the competence of the intelligence agencies. I hope your "maturity" considered all the facets of the subject-matter before asking others to act like a mature person.

NOTE: You should learn the correct meaning of "raid" before using it bluntly. It will help you convey your messages with more confidence, as your "maturity" demands confidence.

Quote:
Secondly ,what do you know about OBL operation, it was pretext to defame isi and establishment ,and a plethora of extreme fallacies. OBL was not killed in abbotabad operation?He was died down by natural death,as he was suffering from renal failure.(I think so I will have to shut my mouth because I am crossing my limit ,but any way BBC has confirmed that OBL was expired by renal failure and in 2003.
I do not want to waste time on the "conspiracy theories". For your convenience and for your "maturity", I am providing you one Google search, which will be enough to prove my point that conspiracy theories should not resides in one's mind. Otherwise, one day, one's brain will get so full of conspiracy theories that it will explode, which may serve some purpose to humanity, but there is a possibility that it can pollute the environment as well. Anyway, here is the image(full of conspiracies):

Search keywords: Osama Bin Laden died in 20...

For your arguments, you may use another death date of OBL by "researching" more about it using the aforementioned search-keywords.

As far as BBC is concerned, I do not care what they say or not. If I start paying heed to their each and every news, then I have to embrace Israel's narrative against Palestinians, which they share with rejuvenated zeal and zest.

Quote:
Than sectarian comes,yes isi s right wing is meant for that purpose.But remember only blaming this institution is a grand mistake.Because what is the role of political parties like PML(N), Ji and ANP.Here reciprocity works or in other words "tit for tat".Political parties are begging vote from fanatics and in turn terrorist parties are handed over to Golf fundings.Tell me law enforcement agencies are perpetrating the plot to ablaze the houses of Christians in Lahore.
I thought you only had a problem with punctuation, but it turns out that you do have a problem with reading the titles of posts, which is why you might have ignored it.

The title is "ARE you satisfied with Intelligence agencies of Pakistan !!!", not "ARE you satisfied with Intelligence agencies of Pakistan OR ARE you satisfied with the political parties of Pakistan !!!"

Both the entities, political parties and intelligence agencies, are incomparable.

For your maturity, I am discussing the role of intelligence agencies, not the duties, should-s and should-nots of political parties. Also I am getting that you are the proponent of dictatorship, not democracy. I may be wrong. If so, I apologise in advance.

Quote:
Regarding missing person in Balochistan,you need in depth analysis:
I don't bother your self made rudimentary remarks.justify Ziarat incidence and bolan medical complex incidence.
Plus:

Quote:
in Balochistan who is blood shedding and to whom.Some hints ,a Canadian citizen Ahmar masti is running an organization Ak -47 ,This organization is equivalent to MQM in Karachi.and ironic enough the person is calling Mala yousaf zai as baloch (even an illiterate person knows very well that she is pathan not baloch)This person is also co hosting a morning show in Canada.So propogating a false propaganda in media and for rest visit my previous post.
I have highlighted your self-made remark. Therefore, I have decided not to bother the above-mentioned incidents, just for the sake of your "maturity", which clearly is unique in your frame of reference.

Now as far as your other paragraph is concerned, I do not like to analyse the situations the way you have presented. FALANA is the DON and DHAMKANA is the real culprit, without even considering the root cause.

I will not go to the whole history of Baluchistan conflict and insurgency, as you seem pretty good at gathering cherry-picked informations and invalid, false facts. However, I really want to map-out the original scenario because of the reason mentioned after the whole scenario mentioned below. I will cut it short because of the time constraints.

Baluchistan comprises of few princely states before the independence of Pakistan. After Pakistan's independence, the then king of Kalat took a decision to accede to Pakistan, which was opposed by few groups of Kalat. They initiated the separatist movements. Then those groups were subdued by using force by Pakistan Army upon the order of civilian government. Everything settled down, as those groups did not have large following.

After few years, when one-unit policy was adopted, Baluchistan's government's representation was decreased; which then lead to another guerrilla war.

Then another insurgency because of military bases issues.

Then after the dismemberment of Pakistan, Baluchistan's leading parties, especially National Awami Party NAP, demanded more provincial autonomy. Why? because the way Bhutto treated Bangladesh(erstwhile East Pakistan) made them cogitate about their status as well. Another factor was Bhutto's autocratic behaviour. He refused all of their demands. Long story short, they demanded more provincial autonomy, and Bhutto rejected them all.

Then arresting chief ministers, two governors, MNAs and MPAs.

Then declaring NAP a terrorist party, added fuel to fire.

Then fighting and killings of thousands of Baloch rebels, insurgents as well as civilians.

Reason: Only one, which was more provincial autonomy! (Due right)

After Bhutto, Zia ul Haq released all, gave them incentives and everything became goody goody.

Then Nawaz and Bibi, both, negotiated with them, and let them run the Baluchistan government; again goody goody.

Meanwhile, in 90s, Pakistan also supported Mujahids of Kashmir against India.(Just keep that in mind)

Then problem arises when Musharraf wanted to sweep away PMLN and PPP from the face of the earth, but there (in Baluchistan) Bugti, Marri and Mengal out of many Sardars opposed dictatorship; also they demanded increased royalties from natural resources and revenue, which kind of offended Musharraf. He(Musharraf) wanted them to succumb to his dictatorship, but they did not.

Then same old strategy; open cases; declare them terrorists etc.

Then Bugti's killing...

Reasons of the above-mentioned insurgency:
1) Dictatorship,
2) Royalties from natural resources and revenue.(Due right)


Then missing persons; Supreme court's stance about missing persons.

All of the above reasons made them what they are today. Skipping Afghanistan's portion, Punjabi sentiment and Pathan factor, which you can read yourself.

Now let me talk about PUSH AND PULL factor.

Most of the times in history, Baluchistan was pushed back. Afghanistan, on the other hand, was a pull factor for them because of proxy wars and tensions between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also, India found a perfect opportunity to start fishing in the disturbed water. Why? The answer to why is mentioned above, which you were supposed to keep in your mind. Now two pulls and one push created vacuum for other militants as well.


Also keep in mind their(Baluchistan's) culture. Our ways to protest against anything are road blockage, rallies, and in extreme cases burning tires in the middle of the roads. Their way to protest is not tantamount to ours. Their way to protest is to pick up the guns and resolve issues using force. It is the cultural and historical fact, which cannot be denied. The question is how to curb all of that. There are two way to approach such conundrum as above:
1) Using force against force.
2) Negotiations.

Now I will let you prefer whatever you want to other, and why.

All of above story was meant to tell you that stop inflicting your opinions on others on the basis of "few" cherry-picked distorted facts from internet. Try to understand the root cause before even talking about "talking".

Populating whole post full of numbers does not make it readable. Please provide some rationale behind your every stance as well.

Regards.

[Rest I shall discuss later. More on Baluchistan, and also on "your police, your police, your police" rhetoric. In short, to be continued...]
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Old Monday, May 25, 2015
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@isb kid
kindly correct your mistakes because push and pull factor.I had read it in pre o levels classes as part of environmentalism,determinism and in socioeconomic perspective. and this whole series of episode has no link with agency performance.
2.what do you know about conspiracy theory ,what an utter semblance of ignorance is displayed from your side on OBL.
I think so you need to sign up London review of book series and than read oBL killing by Seymour Hersh.
kindly call your conspirar to explain some glaring facts.
on21-1-2002
ex president Musharraf in an interview has confirmed that OBL was died down by natural death due to kidney failure.
it was later on confirmed by Paul kraig(former secretary of us treasury and editor of wall street journal.
in Egyptian newspaper All waqf had confirmed this news.
Than can you explain why America has celebrated Law day on 1st may 2011. and it was asserted by CIA that OBL under abbotabad compound was commanding and controlling alqaeda via internet and mobile.(Let me correct you its a sensitive area and hajjes were installed in 2001.
is it logical to dispose off dead body in ocean and also covered up by concrete pillars.
And in Balochistan
Your own explanation support my stance that feudal were miscreant.and political mishandling was condensed to tipping point than army was allowed to operate it with iron hands.
Supreme court verdict!
kindly explain me in detail.Note mention the verdict of both parties .
If you got it ,than I am sure it is sufficient enough understand what is really going to be happen.
in short I am satisfied because its the only organization where jobs are provided on the basis of meritocracy and postings on non political basis.

on 21-02
Musharraf had given the interview to CNN.
Than in abbottabad mobile and internet jammers were pre installed ,even before OBL raid.
Isb kid ,I think so its sufficient enough to prove your rudimentary stance wrong.
Let me tell 80% Pakistanis are unaware of world politics .Kindly check it out whether I am right or wrong.
Regarding Opf ,QHQ raid
Dear kid move out of your utopian world ,because there is no country in the world which is safe from miscreants. Boston bombing in US ,Charles hudebo in france ,isil in iraq and hizbullah in Telaviv,is reflecting that security laps are definitely prevailing. But it doesn't mean start crying on foolish acts.I already spilled obnoxious deeds of isi in my previous post.But problem is that,you are juxtapositioning some political issues at military institution.
Obviously it would be due to ignorance.
And for your info you were failed to provide me concrete evidences.(kindly prove your perspective with solid arguments)
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  #17  
Old Monday, May 25, 2015
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Quote:
kindly correct your mistakes because push and pull factor.I had read it in pre o levels classes as part of environmentalism,determinism and in socioeconomic perspective. and this whole series of episode has no link with agency performance.
Also:

Quote:
And in Balochistan
Your own explanation support my stance that feudal were miscreant.and political mishandling was condensed to tipping point than army was allowed to operate it with iron hands.
What mistake? Seems like you have misunderstood the notion back in your pre o level classes. You really need to revisit and revamp the general essence of that notion. Furthermore, I think you do have a trouble reading the context as well. I said in bold letters the following:

All of above story was meant to tell you that stop inflicting your opinions on others on the basis of "few" cherry-picked distorted facts from internet. Try to understand the root cause before even talking about "talking".

That political blunders I shared only because of the fact that you were senselessly picking one or two incidents, and throw your jargon bluntly in one post without even connecting the dots. I just gave you an example how you should debate if you really want to get something out of it. Also it will help others, in this case me, to understand what you are trying to saying.

Your thoughts are so chequered that I had to give more time understanding your views than typing my views. You have to present your thoughts lucidly.

The way you present your thoughts is like my uncle's mother-in-law's uncle's son's son's daughter's cat died because of suffocation.

Plus, at the end:
Rest I shall discuss later. More on Baluchistan...

Meaning I did not complete my discussion. The vital part whether or not intelligence agencies are saints is yet to come.

Quote:
Than can you explain why America has celebrated Law day on 1st may 2011. and it was asserted by CIA that OBL under abbotabad compound was commanding and controlling alqaeda via internet and mobile.(Let me correct you its a sensitive area and hajjes were installed in 2001.
is it logical to dispose off dead body in ocean and also covered up by concrete pillars.
Plus:

Quote:
on 21-02
Musharraf had given the interview to CNN.
Than in abbottabad mobile and internet jammers were pre installed ,even before OBL raid.
Isb kid ,I think so its sufficient enough to prove your rudimentary stance wrong.
Let me tell 80% Pakistanis are unaware of world politics .Kindly check it out whether I am right or wrong.
Regarding Opf ,QHQ raid
Dear kid move out of your utopian world ,because there is no country in the world which is safe from miscreants. Boston bombing in US ,Charles hudebo in france ,isil in iraq and hizbullah in Telaviv,is reflecting that security laps are definitely prevailing. But it doesn't mean start crying on foolish acts.I already spilled obnoxious deeds of isi in my previous post.But problem is that,you are juxtapositioning some political issues at military institution.
Obviously it would be due to ignorance.
And for your info you were failed to provide me concrete evidences.(kindly prove your perspective with solid arguments)
Yet again, you are placing nonsense on top of another nonsense to come up with a nonsense, which can easily compel others to bang their heads right in the wall. Please do not digress from the subject-matter. Also write your complete thoughts, as, trust me, it is really really really really really really hard to understand what you are trying to say.

If you want the recent past scenario, I am going to reiterate it in two words:"Missing persons."

Rest, in leisure time.

Cheerio.
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Old Monday, May 25, 2015
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isb kid
Let me ask you some fundamental questions

1.what is the difference between institutionalism and individualism?if you knew about this ,Than you will never mix up dictatorship with Agencies.
2.what is your pull and push drama and how can you link it with intelligence agencies and particularly with is I.( don't tell me afghan story )?
Because it has been contentious with dictators blunders not agencies.
3 what is baloch culture (let I assume it is like daggers dawn and feudal based tribalism,than establish its correlation with isi(are agencies meant for such breeding grounds)?
4.what is the difference between democracy and dictatorship(don't tell me the lesson of equality ,probing and equity)explain me within the context of today's politics.?
5.Boston bombing and Hudebo incidence ,explain this?(since you were dumb in previous post.)

6.Have you any such proof to falsify my stance on OBL as conspiracy theory?(first tell me what's conspiracy meant to you)
who said ," OBL and abottabad operation is conspiracy theory.
7where is supreme courts verdict on baloch extrajudicial killings

(present me some points from final report of SC.
I don't allow the rumor mill to manufacture some superstitious products.)
8.How can you justify Zarb I azab within the context of push and pull factor?(by the way this term is copy pasted and it has no link with intelligence agency.
word goody goody also reflects some abysmalities,to set up ones own agenda.

9.Proxy war ,Kashmir issue and so many others : kindly elaborate the devils attribute of is I in this regard.
10.you were explaining some points ,as intelligence agencies are not saint...When you will explain?
11.where is memo scandle?

I am waiting, please explain me and lastly don't mention Google pasting ,I don't need shoddy remarks but concrete evidences.Because you settled the dust of OBL under the carpet of conspiracy theory.
if you didn't understand my post
than
Me too didn't understand your push and pull jargon .Why you are obssessively mixing up political blunders as establishments evil nexus .?
Your own stance on Kashmir issue is creating ambiguities.Either you don't know the jurisdiction of agencies or unaware of realities or ignorant of geopolitics.( by jurisdiction ,I mean exercising the power lawfully)


Kindly finish your short version "history of Balochistan" and intelligence failure in this trouble water .Than I will explain my stance.

I hope readers can decide better than us. Up til now ,your story of Balochistan is misinterpreted.
Like who had financed Khan of kalat for dis approval?Why operation was not successfully launch to exterminate all these dissidents? when zia: being famous for his extrajudicial killings, was playing goody goody with Baloch insurgents and why Baloch is sidelined?Even on today,how much media gives coverage on Balochistan issue? Even analyst label this region as" Forgotten prints of Pakistan ".
Kids definitely label it as Push and pull factor ,but reality is something different and this is the reason why I am saying 80% Pakistanis are ignorant.
If you know the answers of these glaring question than share with me. and also where police ,Mi and other agencies are sleeping?

Most importantly where democracy is looking and why?Under the pretext of National interest who has gained what and what was its magnitude?
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Old Tuesday, May 26, 2015
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Originally Posted by IslamabadKid View Post
...
Let me assume that you are unaware of the notion "healthy debate"...
...Oh, stop portraying yourself as Mr. know-it-all and labelling others as the ignorant,.
... "your maturity"...
...I have highlighted your self-made remark. Therefore, I have decided not to bother the above-mentioned incidents, just for the sake of your "maturity", which clearly is unique in your frame of reference.
...The way you present your thoughts is like my uncle's mother-in-law's uncle's son's son's daughter's cat died because of suffocation
..yet again, you are placing nonsense on top of another nonsense to come up with a nonsense, which can easily compel others to bang their heads right in the wall.
Isb-Kid, you are really kidding here right, see what ever you put here from your highly mature mind and very intelligent analysis ( as per your thoughts ).
Really nonsense and childish way of debate from your side. Are you the only mature in this forum that in every line you start, dub others' views and ideas ?

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The first perspective says that using what resources they get all of the information? If they already know that something "will" happen, and "that" particular group will make it happen, then why did not they take precautionary measures by highlighting the whole "raid" to Army, which then was, and is, already busy making the Operation Zarb-e-Azb successful by exterminating all the root elements behind terrorism?
Mr.Kid, don't know why but our over intelligent people are getting stuck in third class views based on very simple common sense ! Means if our intelligence agencies are aware that something will happen, then they know in general sense that x, y & z are planning to attack somewhere having this & that plan ? You know nothing how they operate.
Remove this concept from your Einsteinious mind, i will put a dimension for this either you assume it or not:
Intelligence agencies forewarn as they warned but the way they do so has not been based on precise information that where, when, how and who will conduct the attack. For Example see how did they warned about APS Pishawer attack:


"carry out terrorist activities against APS/ collages or other educational institutes being run by Pakistan Army (particularly located in KPK )
Intelligence agencies try hard to ascertain their (terrorists') plans and strategies whenever they get enough information like particular date,place & doers then they don't even mention it with our other law enforcement institutes ( making it all secret so that they could halt it by their own hands ).
But the reason they warn others like govt. etc, comes when they could not gain enough info about the attack. Like in the above letter they have clearly mentioned that "APS or other institutes run by Army in 'KPK'". So tell me that is the information above enough for Intelligence agencies to carry out any counter-attack ? And they informed about the likelihood of attack so that our other so-called law enforcement factors could also participate to halt those brutal attacks. Our intelligence agents can't stand outside the Schools/Collages & other institutes like Security guards to prevent these attacks, as they have many other things to do. We people should also expect other institutes doing their duties properly like Police etc.

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...we could have saved our hundreds of bright stars of our future...
What a nice emotional remarks !
Directly putting sentimental views can't get your argument to the logical sense.

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...whether it was APSAC(all over the country), AFIC hospital, POF Wah Cantt, GHQ Rawalpindi, or NUST Islamabad etc. If that general notification is what you are alluding, then it clearly shows the incompetence of intelligence agencies in that regard. How? They were not even able to identify where and when a horrendous attack would happen.
Hmmm, when asked like this i have often some questions to ask that:
What is your definition of an agency's being successful in a country like Pakistan ? and what is the other side ? means are you sure that your above mentioned attacks succeeded by terrorists, were the total attacks they had planned ? means if you never knew that how many similar and even bigger attacks may have been countered by our agencies, would it fair or justifiable to term them unsuccessful ? I will not further spend on this, hope you got it.

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As far as BBC is concerned, I do not care what they say..
Who cares for your own views ?

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..I really want to map-out the original scenario..
Original Scenario, let me get it like you. Where from you got the certificate of getting everything originally ? or Perhaps your every view outs latter before getting divine stamp of originality. Don't mind but you have just valued your own interpretations.

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..few" cherry-picked distorted facts from internet. Try to understand the root cause before even talking about "talking".[/B]
Isb-Kid, how can one get to the root cause without knowing things differently ? either from internet or books or journals. Indeed internet is the best and cheapest access to good books, journals, articles etc. and nothing is wrong if we even directly copy and paste anything from other website to support our argument. Because despite this how can we gain the correct angles of the issues from smart minds like you.
But still if i am wrong to say so then kindly correct me ! if there is any other source to gain the sense of understanding the issues by their root causes.

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Baluchistan comprises of few princely states... ...militants as well.
You can express your point in a nutshell despite putting the detailed history of Balochistan.

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Also keep in mind their(Baluchistan's) culture. Our ways to protest against anything are road blockage, rallies, and in extreme cases burning tires in the middle of the roads. Their way to protest is not tantamount to ours. Their way to protest is to pick up the guns and resolve issues using force. It is the cultural and historical fact, which cannot be denied
.
Your every other argument in a way or other can be assumed but this concept looks entirely immature and foolish.
Or you may have been trying to elaborate it by other terms and mistakenly used word "Culture". If this is so then point it out again.

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The vital part whether or not intelligence agencies are saints is yet to come
.
Don't late to draw it bared.

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If you want the recent past scenario, I am going to reiterate it in two words:"Missing persons."
Correct but how you keep contradictions ? When some anti-state groups attack on you, you call them terrorists, militants etc but when state runs its counter attacks on them, though unconventionally, you come to call them 'missing persons' but not 'missing militants' ?
Secondly, although our agencies are conducting such like operations in Balochistan but it doesn't mean that all the people captured & missed are merely taken by our own agencies. Definitely there are many other across border agencies doing their best to separate Pakistan so how can they miss such a crucial and feasible chance ?.

Conclusion: Often many surveys has concluded that ISI is best spy agency of the world. But how can such things be possible despite these all attacks ?
Because no other country in the world has situations similar to that of Pakistan. Like either a country has political issues or religious or the other. But In Pakistan all the evils exist at once. We have the worst kind of sectarianism, we are having political issues at brutal levels, almost 60% of our population is discontent with our country's system like more are separatists and some are at protest all the time, we have about hundreds of kilometers border without border guards/security due to lack of adequate number of army making our country open to across border enemies, we have most corrupt and inefficient Police in the world which is the major cause behind the all prevailing unrest in our country, Geographically we have a highly clashed neighboring country named Afghanistan, facing its impact in our country is one of the problems on their own axis.
And many many many more things. Now if all these things put in one and all the charges of these put upon a single spy agency becomes one of the most difficult tasks in the world...
No doubt we still need to do more to curb all the aspects of terrorism. But Beware! still you are living in an independent state. .
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