Assalam Alaikum,

Recently, I have been very much entangled and lost in my thoughts and wonder that may be we deserve it all. Yes, we very much deserve it, every bad that has or will occur to us. A very fabric of our society as bad as ours can go nowhere but downwards, where we are infected with ills of humanity amongst us yet try very hard to put a false façade of enlightened moderation and other mumbo jumbo. May be if we would have put the same effort in correcting the ills, we may have succeeded, yet nobody gives it a thought, and continue the same route. They say a nation no matter how strong and moral cannot do without the will of its people and strong leadership, and we lack both will and leadership.

A country that was made for individual freedom, has become mentally enslaved in the system. From a farmer who is happy to sit on the feet of his landlord, and let him has his way right or wrong, to the politicians enslaved and kneeled in front of their foreign masters. As a matter of fact we in our society are succumbed to the one stronger than us, so much so that we no longer understand the implication of being submitted. A feudal society always gives greater way to the people with money and power.

Power, hypocrisy, and lieshave infected our society, where it is okay for people to die of starvation and commit suicides. It is also okay to have your human dignity raped in every possible way and no justice. It is okay to speak your mind and be kidnapped and have your name on the missing person list. And all the sorrows and ills that we share. AND NO JUSTICE, OR ACCOUNTABILITY.

Yet people with power are doing deals with each other and outsiders and selling us in bits and pieces for their personal advantages.

So moral corrupt country as ours that is being raped by our own, than may be it is not such a bad thing getting bombarded by others.

I Pray that ALLAH ALMIGHTY KEEP US and OUR COUNTRY SAFE.

Thanks.

NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN FRONT OF WILLING HEART

1ST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT THE ROLE OF THOSE PERSON WHO ARE OUR LEADERS THEY ARE LIKE A FATHER OR GUARDIAN IN A FAMILY AND SUPPOSE IN A FAMILY A FATHER IS THEIF AND HE IS TOTALLY CURREPT THEN WHAT YOU THINK? WHAT HE WILL SUGGEST TO HIS YOUNGER?
YES HE WILL ASK THEM GO DO KILL PEOPLES BUT BRING MONEY THATS THE SAME CONDITION NOW A DAYS IN OUR COUNTRY NO ONE IS BREATHING FOR COUNTRY IN OUR PRESENT POLITICIANS THIS IS ONLY THERE BUSINESS WHERE THEY ARE INVERSTING AND AFTER WINNING EARNING THERE PROIFTS
PETROL COMPANIES ARE TAKING MORE THEN 30% EXTRA PROFIT (NO ONE IS ASKING THEM THE RESON) NO ANY
NOW LETS HAVE A LOOK TO OUR BUSINESS MEN DO YOU KNOW OUR WEAT WAS FOUND FROM AFGHANISTAN TO CENTRET ASIA HOW ITS REACHING THERE WE ARE CRYING HERE FOR WEAT AND OUR WEAT IS ILLIGALLY SENT TO THE OTHER COUNTRIES WHO ARE PAYING MORE MONEY AND THE RESPONSIBLE ARE THOSE PEOPLES WHO ARE ILLIGALLY SELLING IT TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND THEY THEM SELVES ARE LIVING IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHO ARE SUPPORTING THEM ?
IF SOME ONE IS COMMENTING ON POLITICIANS OR HE IS TELLING TRUTH TO NATION THEY HAVE TO BE READY FOR DEATH BECAUSE ALL THESE CURREPT PEOPLES ARE RULING IN OUR COUNTRY..
SO THE MORAL OF STORY IS THAT WE HAVE TO DO SOME THING FOR OUR SELF BECAUSE NO ONE IS SINCIRE HERE AND EACH AND EVERY BODY IS JUST FILLING HIS POCKET WITH MONEY HE IS NOT WORRIED ABOUT ANY OTHER PERSON LIVING IN HIS COUNTRY
NOW THE NEED IS SUCH LEADERS WHO ARE NOT MAKING POLITICS AS THEIR BUSINESS AND THOSE WHO CAN CARE ABOUT THE COUNTRY
PLZ PLZ PLZ THIS IS TIME TO SAVE OUR CONTRY WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO MAKE IT AGAIN

@ Muhiuddin

Turn off the CAPS and write it again or I will delete your post.

__________________
The Me you have always known, the Me that's a stranger still.

Baban Miyan welcome back
sir as far as your argument is concerned that we the pakistani people deserve what is going on with our lifes, i will differ with u sir
Sir we the comon pakistani people are totally disenfranchised with the state . There are no polices made in the power heavens regarding our aspiration , our betterment and for our future
61 years have elapsed and we still languish in poverty, illiteracy and the continued repression from the power clique
There are 1.1 percent feudal lords who are not paying any taxes. Two percent elite (Mills elite) having 45 percent of the gnp and a nexus of military-feudal- bureaucracy who had a stranglehold on our nation state alienating us from our country
Sir pakistani people are amongst the most passionate charity givers . Just imagine if it were not guys like Edhi , burni and chippa, what would be the plight of our health services then . A country where the state only produces 1.7 percent of its budget on health ( And most of it also embezzled by ministers, bureaucrates and staffs ) , there would be no SIUT, PIMS ,Shifa international , Shaukat khanam and even Aga khan
There is zeal , intent and vigor in our nation but the power establishment has other agendas.
No serious efforts on education on PSDP. Only 45 percent of our population could read or write its name. The real education profile would be more dreadful
Sir only 1.5 percent of our youth reaches the post graduate level and then what the state offers them is only sanguine politics , apathic proffesors and and degenerated educational institutions.
Who stopped our power elite to work for the welfare of its people but isnt it the same mafia who is bent upon revering , covering and guarding the exploitive viceregal model
Feudal society in Indopak was a brainchild of lord hastings who introduced his land revenue system and thus the beginning of feudalism in indopak It was lord sandeyman (I hope i am spelling it correctly) in 1867 who established the tribal system in balouchistan and sindh.
How all these feudal lords got their possesions is no secret Read Punjab chief that how these unscruplous local ruffians were revarded for their amoralty rather depravity of their character So in referece to their incriminated background why all the agararian reforms were made futile and ineffective (From 1956 to the death below in 1984)
Sir who is the one, who imposed Nawab of kalabagh Ameer ali khan on us. Who made a mess of afghan policy . Who formed Q league
When we the common men had no embroilment in policy making, you cant blame us for the torn social fabric
This chaos , this lawlessness and this turmoil is leading to only one conclusion A total upheaval of our power structure A complete revolution that will be uncompromising, ruthless and ensanguined in nature.
Pakistani people are hoping with the current democratic setup but as for as now, utterly dissappointed with the palace intrigues and unfulfillment of their aspiration The whole electioneering is highjacked and a pro establishemt clique is installed.
Talks of q league - zardari group- altaf mvement collobaration ,
No sober effort for restoration of judges.,lack of any policy safeguarding the consumer rights and continued patronization of mafias.
In this scenario the role which our diminished , weak but infatuated civil society is playing must be venerated . We all must strife for the vision envisaged by our forefathers for a society built on equality, muslim brotherhood and ideal social justice.
sir our populace is fervent, booming with patriotism and hardworking It is only needed to give them direction and to make policies for the interest of our nation. We the pakistani people faced the economic sanction for the sake of our nuclear program in the past and are more than ready to do the same if we are compelled in the most draconian econonomic sanctions again. It is not our nightmare but it is of the feudal class ,whose sublings are going for UK for having previleged education of cambridge and oxford

__________________
Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human

Assalam Alaikum,

Brother, I think I may have offended you in some way or other by my post, which was not the intent.

As far as the disenfranchised of people in Pakistan from politics, brother let me remind you that all the previous muslim dynasties of history had its citizens with zeal and vigor to do better, and we achieved...Yet it was this very disconnectivity that brought us where we are at. If it was the mastery of philosphy, mathematics, and various other fields that we were good at, it couldv'e landed us somewhere good, and we would have been somewhere else. But these achievements were small mildstones, the greater good could have been achieved if we were to translate it into greater good, by giving people the ability to think independently, and make their decisions. It is this freedom the enables you to think, and to achieve, be it anything including politics. Why leave it for few, and follow it like a horse with a blinders to his eyes unable to make decisions.

Now I am not to say that we should not do any good, but sooner or later that good that was intended for few needy, should expand to collective good of all the needy.

You know we may be very good to help the poor we know in our neighborhood, but do we expand our horizon to think of others.

Brother, the point being that we should not leave it to only few and willing to open Shaukat Khanam and such institutions. It should be our demand that this should be the public policy of our government.

This very awareness to become part of decision making, to shape your own future requires each one of us to demand it now...rather than fail policies with no accountability.

Forget about us being illiterate, but we at least know that whatever is going is not right...we should at least ask to set it right.

Revolutions are made possible by people who are aware, and by common men, until we reach to that awareness......and continue to submit ourselves......THAN MAY BE.....

I hope my reply satisfy you, I think the suppressing of our population and not recognizing their needs and rights, we are making them desperate to take their own lives and or other people lives. I think we cannot eradicate extreme thinking until we become aware and demand. All the problems in our society are interconnected, you cannot solve one by leaving others unsolved.

Thanks.

Sir i am not offended by you I am rather happy that you initiated this debate
Sir the prevailing circumstances are ideal for a complete upheaval of the exploitive socioeconomic order
People are fed up with the sloganeering and fanciful party programs
Pakistani people have casted their votes to bring the change In this election even after so much of massive rigging in Balouchistan, karachi , southern punjab and thar , the message is clear .Pakistani people wants change in the system. They want public poilicies made for their interest , for their protection and for their welfare. We dont want war on terror but on the other hand we also dont need taliban. No repression , no highhandness would be tolerated now as it was a customary practice in the past.
Sir have you analysed why in the last three hundred year we, the muslims have plunged into the abysmal decadance. Do you know that the last greatest muslim mathematician Alagh baig , the ruler of mughal empire of central asia and the grandson of Taimoor the lame was slain by his son This act of patricide was was sponserd by the clergy who considered Math , science and logic as heresy
there was a continous conserative dynamism Our greatest scientest were called as Muzala , qaramati and atheiest . Even a hundred year back our clergy was alergic of the works of Jabar bin hayan, Ibn rushd , Bu ali saina and many other muslim rationalists.
We are amongst the third world country because of our illeteracy. India is now the superpower of future as they are now producing the most numbers of engineers and scientists It is realy painful that we the followers of prophet Mohammad PBUH are now saying that forget that we are illeterate
Sir the socioeconomic ground in pakistan is ideal for a revolution .
We the common pakistani people in no capacity are responsible for Alqaeda, Taliban activities and nor we have any thing to do with the black marketing , corruption and repression
Sir you are blamming the victoms that why are you victoms ? You must be paying for some undone sins or may be Allah created you for the purpose of suffering the hellships of the mundane world and then would be suffering more for eternity in the after life.
Sir muslim population was indiffernt with the past repressive regime and it was the main reason why the toppling of respective ummaiah, abbasi , ottoman failed to generate the public reaction.
However none were a era where there was so much public resentment, so much sentiments about the oppressive model as it is now in pakistan.
Did you witness the support the Judges movement get ?
Did you witness the pbublic anger at the incident of 27 december ?
Arent you not witnessing the new trend of suicide bombers from our tribal regions
Sir this class of feudalist were installed on us in the colonial era They didnot evolved from our society A fabricated and concoated phenomenon exploiting us and depriving us from our basic fudamental rights.
Sir the pakistani people dont want corporate Army, conscienceless bureaucracy and patronized feudal class. They want change They have already played their part in febuary election and if there is no room for any change in the system then a total mobocracy remains the only option for the opressed pakistani people The alive burning of armed robers in different parts of the country is only a trailor of things to come.

__________________
Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human

Sir Your arguments are weighty but All is not Rosy when you come to the masses.You are only aware to the drawingroom happenings.You are saying that people want change and They have already played their part in february election My question is what Difference that election has Brought For the Common Man. Prices are still inflating Judiciary Problem is still there .
You Me or the other guys and girls who have got privilege of education talk about such matters Have you ever seen someone like the ordinary housemaid or the local sabziwala talk about such matters .No Definitely Not .everyone is in his own misery. They are only worried about two square meals a day.
They are born to suffer . They are suffering since 1947 and will keep on suffering .You Might have read George Orwells Animal Farm This best depicts the social picture of our nation They are just like BENJAMIN THE DONKEY Napolean or Snowbell that doesnt makes a difference to lives

Sir fortunately i read Animal Fram, I know what are you refering too.
Sir u need to go out ,ask your sabzi wala who in his opinion is responsible for the gross injustice and i guarntee you that you will be more than surprise with his answer .The masses are now more than aware as compared to us ,the educated breed. They are more prudent than what you expect them to be.
Now sir every action has an equal but opposite reaction . what comes around goes around.
You need to be rendezvous with a social scientest and he would tell u that the critical limit for a social upheaval has reached in pakistan. Just observe the voilent demonstrations on loadshedings across the country.

__________________
Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human

Assalam Alaikum,

I appreciate the response, and I agree with all the responses, how can I disagree.

U know one thing that bothers me a great deal is that, YES we are slowly and surely waking up, and the last 2 years are good example of that. Yet I still feel that the times are so desperate that waking up slowly will not do.

Once again I appreciate the responses, One thing I like to mention that like anything it takes a person a through understanding and intelligence to understand religion, Otherwise you get someone like Maulana Fazl ur Rehman and many more like him.

This is just one example that every fabric of our society is hijacked by people who are beneath an average honest pakistani.

In the lack of genuine and honest leadership honest to people, donkeys will lead.....and these donkeys will produce future donkeys to lead as well....where as we can only hope for change.

Thanks.

Good discussion Indeed by respected members.
Both the public and government is responsible for this mess scattered in paksitan.
But responsibilty level of government is much more than public.

i am surprised to see today newspaper that India has barricaded water of Chennab and there are great chances of destroying crops.

US decison is obvious that US will continue attacking pakistan territory

Pakistan economy is under high pressure and according to report in Dawn that inflation rampant and increasing by the day

Response of our leaders

1) Governor of Punjab is busy in meetings with Chaudhry brothers to destabilize punjab government and have a coalition with PPP, it will be very worse situation. IS this democracy? Country is burning and bleeding and these leaders are busy in further worsening the situation. By the efforts of Governor, Pervaiz Elahi has resigned from opposition leader in NA and give indication of possible coalition with PPP
2) President Zardari is on his private tour to London
3) Prime minister says that we cannot retaliate US, we will solve this issue by dialogues.what is result of these dialogues ,every one of us knows that during last 8 years when US attack, our rulers issed a statement and assured that we will talk to US but atacks continued.
4) i dont understand that when there was crises of wheat in pakistan then we our Newly elected prime minister announced to give 50,000 tons of wheat to Afghanistan as a gift. Why Why? people are starving and these leaders are busy in exchanging gifts.

i understand that problems are more but these leaders atleast should look as serious and busy in solving problems of paksitan.
Atleast they should start ,initiate

5) why every time these people say shamelessly that we are doing this in the name of democracy.this word is used so many times by these leaders that some times i start hating this word.
Some times Zardari ask Q league as Qatil league and Pervaiz Elahi ask PPP as a part that disintegrated pakistan but then for government , only for government they forget everything.

i think Shehbaz Shareef is the only person who looks sincere to people.
there published a photograph of Shahbaz Shareef in express news paper ,in which he was meeting with a victim in khulli kechahari in lahore, the room in which he was sitting was very simple like the room of Iranian president.
he is sincerely taking the pain of people and giving relief to poeple like Iftikhar Chaudhry did through Sou moto actions and was victimized by Musharaf.

i think we should get rid of these corrupt people and should educate people

__________________
Thanks and Regards
M.Zaman
Operations Engineer