Pakistan,hopefully(coz here has been plenty of debate whether Quaid e Azam wanted it to be a theocratic state or a secular one) was taken in the name of Islam.I have absolutely no problems with its laws being Islamic,and the constitution promoting Islam as the religion of the state.After all,being a muslim I do believe that there are no better laws than those given in Quran and Hadith.
The problem I have is with the interference of religion in Administration.The merger of religion and politics,we can tentatively say,is workable(although in Pakistan the experiment hasn't worked).But religion should never be merged with administration,and it should never never influence our judgments about the minorities and other nations.The laws shouldn't be misused in the name of religion.For example we have always been told that the 'Blasphemy law' is Islamic.We should know that although it seems Islamic,it hasn't been mentioned or derived from the Primary sources of Islamic law,and thus if it is debated in the parliament or by a governor of a punjab,he shouldn't be killed.And some of the negative impacts that 'overuse' of religious rhetoric has brought about is the killin of Gov Salman Taseer and the fact that people are celebrating a murderer.Religion,in Pakistan,has been used,rather abused by rulers,clergy and the people alike.If you have a grudge with someone,just convict him of blasphemy,and his life would be destroyed even if blasphemy isn't even proved.If an army general wants to hold the nation hostage and confiscate its liberties for a decade,he uses the name of ISLAM.We use our own interpretation of Islam to tag others non-muslims and unbelievers etc.Come on,nobody has given us a right to tag the other person so,and even if someone [I]is[I]a non muslim,it shouldn't be considered a gali!Religion,no doubt,is necessary for a varied country like Pakistan and should have a controlled role in its politics,but it shouldn't clod our better judgment about diversity,shouldn't influence administration,and most importantly,shouldn't be used to justify misdoings.Alas in Pakistan,everyone has used,rather misused it to attain vested interests.The need of the our is to revisit Islam,study it objectively and spread it objectively throughout the masses.We need Islam the Muhammad(SAW) version,NOT the Zia ul Haq or Mumtaz Quadri version

Today Muslims aal over the world are facing so many difficulties and in Pakistan our political system is much depressing. The reason is that we are much away from our religion. and if true Islamic way of Govt. is formed then there is no doubt that we can make progress. The way of Govt. is mentioned by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) where all people are equal and all are accountable to law. Where there is no presidential protection to anyone.... A simple man can ask questions from the rulers....
today we are much away for true Islam and that is why we are facing to many problems...

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Success is never achieved by the size of our brain but it is always achieved by the quality of our thoughts.

Pakistan be shak Islam ke nam pe wujud me aya he, magar hamare sath masla ye he ke yah British law ko follow kya jata he beshak is me bhut si ammendment hoe he. Lekin 100 fisad islamic law nahi he Pakistan me, kuch cheeze Islamic law ki he. Ab masla ye he ke badqismati se hamare yah ke syasatdan khud ko chamkane ke lye halla karte he ke Islami Nizam ho. Agar aap so feesad British law par bhi amal kare aur kahi se Islam ki toheen na ho rahi ho to kabhi koe fasad nahi hoga. Islami qawaneen 100 fesad nafiz karne se mulk ka qanun ek hi rehta he jese ke Saudia me he. Pakistan me Qanun mix shakal me he, islye tazad rehta he, har taqatwar khud ko bachane ke lye mukhtalif hele bhane talash karta he.

Islam ek mukammal zabta e hayat he, magar badqismati hamari he ke hum har jaga se thora thora mawad lete he jis se nae masael janam lete he. Agar mukammal tor pe Islamic law ho jis me koe aur mulk ka qanun shameel na ho to phr koe masla khara na ho. Ya phr mukammal tor pe British law ho to bhi koe masla khara nahi hoga basharteke Islam ki toheen na ho rahi ho.

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ASIF AMIN

All this is a media interpretations of your lines and ideas.you are spaeking of media.i will site tafseer and tradition for this particular verse

tafsir

Then they have been enjoined to place their trusts and offices of trust in the custody of honest and qualified persons, and to do what is just and right, and to obey Allah and His Messenger and those among themselves entrusted with the conduct of their affairs and to turn to Allah and His Messenger for the settlement of their disputes. As such an attitude and behavior alone can ensure consolidation, they have been strongly warned that any deviation from this path will lead to their disintegration. 58 - 72


tradition
hadith found in 'Judgments (Ahkaam)' of Sahih Bukhari.
1.Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah, and whoever obeys the ruler I appoint, obeys me, and whoever disobeys him, disobeys me."
2.Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."


second ,@french i will question from you ,why you think democracy is best and why selection not.secondly Hazrat Abdur Rehman bin Au`uf (R.H) went each corner of streets and houses and major people voted to 3 caliph.but here i support the view selection is better than election .before i debate i want only from you valid and right ful points regarding democracy and with in single post.this will help me to answer you according to your perception.


according to iqbal
"In the West, Intellect is the source of life, In the East, Love is the basis of life. Through Love, Intellect grows aquainted with Reality, And Intellect gives stability to the work of Love, Arise and lay the foundations of a new world, By wedding intellect to Love.":

2.democracy counts man,not standards(iqbal)


so what about your idea abt standard????

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

Firstly I thank Sadia for her excellent and informatic posts. Her style of writing especially with islamic references inspired me a lot. But still I preserve my right to disagree and propogate my point of view as well.

1) You wanted to say "Hazrat Abdur Rehman bin Au`uf (R.H) went each corner of streets and houses" to beg VOTES of people?
I disagree That our caliphs went door to door to beg votes. In caliphate time, some emminent sahabas select caliphh among themselves and all people trusted and caliph was answerable to all public.

Keeping this scnerio in view, I thing election commission can do this duty to nominate best people after being selected by political parties. Every nominee should be crystal clear. us per corruption ya ghadari ka dag na laga ho. Then right to vote should be limited to just graduates or minimum matric pass people of country. In the time course all people should be educated.
Har bandai ko vote ka right dena, aik unparh ka vote aik scholar ke barabar kr dena sara sar nainsaafi hai. Aur islam main kaheen bi aisi politics nahin ke har banda vote kree.

2ndly islamic parties islam ko ghar choor kr aya kreen election larne se pehlai. Islam aik muqasas cheez hai. Meri political parties se request hai ke islam ko apni politics ke liye na baicheen, jaisa ke ham qurbani ke khalo ya jihad ke liye, ya khatam daroodoon ke liye hamare mazhabi political leaders krte hain.

SO i condem sale of islam by our religious parties in politics.

There should be nothing like state religion because:

1-then there would be no equal citizenship as citizens would be divided into one belong to a majority or a minority. And this is against democratic principles.

2-In one way it is against Islamic teachings because an Islamic state has to decided who among its citizens are Muslims and who are not. But according to Islam, it is solely Allah's prerogative to decide who is Muslmaan and who is Kafir.

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He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.

If you thinks this is begging ,than i wonder what you think about democracy.I mean what is your conception about democracy and if you have`nt information about this kind ,then please read it in Islamic book or Google it .but here i narrate this to clear something about Islam but for Islam as you said it stands for selection.will talk later it is selection or election but i am here going to side selection and will shift later toward above mentioned criteria regarding election or selection.

quote any reference in a country where there is no election rigging,no votes are purchase and sale take place via agency,and media propaganda as channel ratings depends upon advertisement and promoting particular party agenda ?????so election system is a corrupt system

are you thinking there are no such rights for individual and what is political power suppose if you vote zardai or Imran khan ....imran khan ya zardari or ,have given you any political right??? why youth did not paticipate in pakistan if this system is true????


plz explain it ......can`t understand.

i did`nt find any logic why you condemn?

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

@french-sovereignty is the foremost pillar of any political system,wheter it is Islamic or western political system.In the western or secular political syetm, sovereignty belongs to people whereas in islam, sovereingty belongs to Allah(swt). When Allah(swt)is the sovereign, then he delegates his powers to his man called Khalifah. The foremost function of a khalifa is to establish the rule or sovereignty of Allah(swt)on the land by carrying out what Allah(swt) orders. When there is a provision of khilafat in islam,then there must be provision of politics in Islam. Isn't it? Politics and religion are inseparable.In Islam,politics starts with and ends at religion
@shootingstar-you are right.I think disunity among various Islamic sects is the major hurdle in the progress of the ummah including Pakistan.Their animosity is glaring in the target killing in karachi. I wonder why leaders of these sects do not unite despite having common fundamentals of the religion? I think differences among these sects are not irrefutable and can be overcome once these sects sit together to sort out their differences.Their fundamental principles are common; all believe in the unity of Allah(swt);all beleive in Akhirat;all believe in the finality of the prophethood;all believe in one kalima;all believe in Namaz,Roza,Zakat and Hajj.Then what else is left to have differences over? Then why do we fight with one another? I think there are invisible forces working in our societies which keep us disunited.
@french-In Islamic history there has been an era of khilafat.Is khilafat not a version of politics?

And yes there have been elections in the Islamic history.Our khalifa(Hazrat Umar farooq(RA),Hazrat Abu Bakar Sideeq(RA)and Hazrat Ali(RA)were all elected rulers. What is meant by election or elected people? By it is meant a person who enjoys public confidence.These rulers enjoyed confidence of the people.It means all the people had elected these rulers. Moreover in this era there was a council of khalifas that advised the rulers in all matters. The members of this council were also elected representative.In other words, the members of the council also enjoyed confidence of the people.So in Islam there is perfect political system.There is democracy,not western but Islamic.We are pioneers of the democracy;the westerners are the followers only;they have imitated our systems.

And if you talk about "equivalence of vote,that is, can vote of a drug-dealer be equal to vote of a scholar?" then there is also a provision in Islam. Islam distinguishes between a common man and a scholar or a prominent figure.Our holy Prophet(PBUH) would not consult the illiterate;Rather he would consult the most distinguisher ones. And he would encourage education.And there are provision in the Quran regarding this issue but i do not memorize these ayats at the moment.

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We can trust the man of troubles but not on the man of pleasures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rose_pak I am starting this thread to have your views on the role of religion in Pakistani politics. Has it been productive? Has it transformed the society into a unity? Whether it has been positive or negative? Is there a role of religion in Pak politics? and most importantly, what is the way forward? Should we separate state and religion or both be unified?

Qaum Mazhab se hai,mazhab jo nahi tum bhi nahi,
jazb e baham jo nahi mehfil e anjum bhi nahi...!!

Religion is a strong factor to bind a nation together but Alas..! If you talk about Pakistani politics,here religion has been misused for the sake of political benefits.It never proved a catalyst to strengthen political institution rather it distorted the concept of combining both.The representatives of Islamic parties never had such characters which could inspire public to support them nor they remained behind in looting.Half political,half religious system bred "aadha teeter aadha batair" system which didn't have influencing power nor sincere and religious leadership who could implement "a true Islamic system".It resulted in "Extremism" and lack of tolerance.

"na khuda he mila na wisaal e sanam,
na idher k rahay,na udher k rahay..!!

I believe religion could and still can play an effective role to produce a "nation".We only need to understand what religion actually means and how it should be used to convert a herd of people in a "Nation".I agree with the last line of Hamza Salick that we need Muhammad(S.A.W.W)'s Islam not of political leaders'.

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Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!

ap ko siasat ki definition ko once again go through krny ki zrurt hai