Most needed and highly desired is courage and the second is political will, then certainly a revolution.

Most certainly. Substitute is resource management and good governance. I have worked on some foreign funded/aided projects, most of the aid money spent on luxuries. US is giving us most of the aid through the INGOs i.e. USAID, Oxfam, Save the Children, CAII etc. The system is, their must be an office setup in US to monitor an aided project. In second tear, a country office in Pakistan mostly of US officials with huge packages in millions besides office setup, capital, training, maintenance and operations costs. That country office setup then provide aid to local NGOs i.e. RSPs or else. That RSP or NGO setup a separate office, employees, capital costs etc. etc. and finally nothing contributed in the nation's interest.

Most important:

Yes, youth can play an important role indeed. Second part is very difficult to answer. I simply say:

recently mere doosre mulkoon main rehne waale jis bhi dost yaa rishtedar ne mujh se contact kiya hai woh yaa to Pakistan pe hans raha hai (agar pakistani nahin hai to) yaa to afsos kar raha hai (agar pakistani hai to) . baqi thought provoking ke liye doosre tension buhut hain, jaise ke 12 ghante loadshedding aur 45 degree garmi aur her taraf afra tafri aur logoon ke fazool behes mubahise waghera waghera .

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

@Ali Ahmad Syed
You mean the aid we receive has never been used for public?
So If aid stops,only the politicians and "shepherds" will be affected.Hmm.Hence it proved Pakistani nation is not dependent on aid,naam hamara,mazay kisi aur k...
Nice sharing of poetic lines

Kasr e nafsi se kaam mat lijiye...I know your posts are thought provoking and serious too when you really mean.I remember "Marriage;follow Islam and society"

I'm looking forward to your expert views on "U.S ghulaami".Please

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Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!

Now come to hard facts, in case of complete breakdown in relations with the USA and also for that matter the Europe.

1. Pakistan pays a whooping 670 billion Rs annually for its domestic debt, while only 70 billion Rs for international debt. Govt. can reduce its domestic expenditure by cutting down the payments to its own people.

Questions #1 is "Can our people digest this?"

2. We mainly rely on USA and west for international trade.

Question #2 is "Can we and our industries live without those huge markets for their products?"

3. We do huge defence expenditure and also need modern weaponry from USA.

Question #3 is "Can we live without US support in weapons procurement and also can we reduce our defence expenditure given our situation?" ( I hope you may know that chinese weapons are good but are not much advanced as american weaponry and also by the way chinese are good with us but not good enough in terms of money matters)

4. We need foreign exchange to import oil from Middle East, if we don't have much foreign exchange then

question #4 is "Can we live without oil imports for indefinate period? ( I assume that arab sheikhs will give us some 'khairat" like they did after 1998 nuclear explosions, but for how long? )

5. We are much reliant on the remittances, in case of complete break down in the relations, USA may stop Pakistani migrants sending us the money.

Question #5 is "Can we survive without these remittances?"

6. We have been nurturing our white elephants called PIA, WAPDA, KESC, Steel Mills and so forth. These elephants are hugely subsidized.

Questions #6 is "Can we continue living with these white elephants the the way they
are?"

7. Our people dont pay personal taxes, you may all know that we have one of the lowest tax to GDP ratio. The low tax collection is one of the main reason on our foreign reliance.

Questions #7 is "Can we live with this meager amount of tax if we say bye bye to USA?"

Please do think over it.

Farraha

Your views are emotionally driven with unrealistic poetry.

Is there any justification of OBL presence in Pakistan? if not. then we are not entitled to expect apology from USA.

To eradicate corruption from pakistan a piece of cake?

Who will eradicate it?

How long it will take-- any time frame?

We need to think pragmatically when it comes to International relations.

Regards,

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When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

hmmm, ok, here are my words about it. angrez jab yahan pe hukoomat karte the tab unhoon ne aik type kaa military, administrative aur socio-political setup banaya, laikin ghor karne kee baat yeh hai ke koi economic setup nahin banaya. angrez ke military setup main military sirf aik unified force thi jo ke angrez ke hukum pe kaam karti thi. administrative setup angrez ke qanoon ke nifaz aur public order ko maintain rakhne waghera jaise kaam karta tha aur woh bhi angrez ke taabe tha. baqi raha socio-political system, woh angrez ne kuch is type kaa banaya ke local nawaboon, sardaroon, ethnic leaders, choti moti tanzeemoon waghera ke saath carrot aur stick policy jaari rakhi aur un ko local masloon kee had tak khudmukhtiari bhi diye rakhi, jis se woh apne apne ilaqoon main buhut powerful ho gaye. ab jab tak angrez yahan the tab tak woh khud hee is system kee nigrani kar rahe the aur kaam chal raha tha, asal masla tab paida hua jab angrez yahan se gaye (jis kaa buhut bara reason hitler kaa danda bhi tha ).

angrez kee hukoomat ke doran administrative setup angrez ke taabe tha, magar kisi azad mulk main yeh setup us ke socio-political environment ke taabe ho jaata hai. hona yeh chahiye tha ke azadi ke baad socio-political setup ko change ho jaana chahiye tha, magar aisa hua nahin aur wohi apne apne ilaqoon ke powerful log aapas main gath jor kar ke power sharing karte rahe. angrez ke dor main military setup angrez kee asal taaqat thi jo ke is socio-political arrangement ko qaboo main rakhti thi. angrez kee direct hukoomat khatam ho jaane ke baad asal aazadi military ko mili aur us ne apni dhons us socio-political setup ko dikhani shroo kar di. khair, yeh to aise hee chala aur chal raha hai, magar yahan pe asal masla saamne aata hai, woh hai economic setup kaa.

economy kee ihmiyat kee definition main yahan pe nahin deta . beherhal, kisi ne kaha hai ke "foj pet se larti hai " (sahi fiqra nahin yaad), khair military ko apna power maintain rakhne ke liye buhut saare equipment aur supply kee zaroorat hoti hai, aur us ke liye aik industrialized society aur industrialized socio-political nizaam kee zaroorat hoti hai, laikin purane socio-political nizam aur agrarian economic system ko cherne se military kee naye mulk main bani hui hegemony khatam ho sakti thi. is liye military ne shortcut ikhtiyar kiya aur equipments, technology, latest strategy waghera ke liye west aur washington kee taraf haath phelaye. yahan se ghulami kee shrooat ho gayi.

doosri taraf hamara socio-political nizam jo jaise chal raha tha waise hee raha. buhut saare locally powerful logoon kee mojodgi aur administrative setup ke un ke taabe hone kee waja se hamari society bilkul hee confusion kaa shikar ho gayi aur jo bhi thori buhut economic sakkat thi is mulk kee woh bhi kam hoti gayi. is kee waja se hamare yeh siyasi log bhi paise ke liye west aur washington kee taraf military ke saath hath phela ke khare ho gaye.

jahan tak awam kaa sawal hai to sab powerful logoon ne, military ke hoon yaa siyasi, awam ko sahi baat kabhi nahin batayi (kaise batate ke hum log doosroon kee khairat pe chalte hain ). aur awam ke jazbaat ko doosre mulkoon ke saath negotiations ke doran cash karate rahe, baqi awam ko apne maqasid ke liye aapas main uljhaye rakha.

ab baat fazool lambi ho gayi hai, mere khayal main saara masla isi baat main chupa hai, jab tak yeh setup qaim rahe gaa tab tak Pakistan kisi na kisi ke aage haath phelaye hee rahe gaa, washington, yaa beijing yaa riyadh yaa koi aur...

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

nice brother ...........

you only mentioned economic points adding your point i will add it is a failure of diplomacy as foreign policy is also failed..foreign policy formed via domestic policy and we people have to make the formula of domestic of economy ;our reliance over aid will be minimized via this process

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

no one will say pakistan is a sovereign state ..yet pakistan has to achieved the status of sovereignty.when we look in new economic world order it will be cleared ;smile size states do not enjoy sovereignty rights..so same thing is in processmennt with pakistan...pakistan first knelt down its knee when liqat ali khan in 1951 begged for aid.pakistan organizational structure is very weak and so leadership will emerged it is out of question.one should be realistic on portraying a picture ..on domestic level ,we see division of pakistan and will be divided in to further more districts as hazara or sarikistan.kashmir problem is also pending and how one nation will become sovereign and emerged ,flourished without aid??????it is out of question..

@newstudent: You raised good questions, lets discuss constructively what could be the possibilities.

We are not discussing about complete breakdown in relations instead relations on some equitable terms.

In short, resource management and good governance.

Yes, you are right that we mainly rely on USA and west for international trade but Our traders are competing in a perfect competition. US and west is not giving them "khairat". Make your products competitive in terms of quality and costs then see who restrict you to compete in the global market. We also need to discover new markets but qulity and costs matter.

This dependence on US in weaponry is obvious but its also has costs. 1965 and 1971 wars weapon restrictions by US are also obvious. What is the use of those advanced weaponry which is not available at the time of need? What is the use of that weaponry if We couldn't even smell US choppers in our space and they operate and fleed. If China could survive without US weapons then why we couldn't.

First, their is a difference in complete breakdown and equitable terms. Second, US is not the only country in terms of remittances. We have UAE, Saudi Arabia, GCC countries (including Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar and Oman), UK EU countries, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, Canada, Japan and many more. By considering this long list US remittance part is small portion.

This question is related to bad governance and our own incapabilities, not related to relations with US.

Again our internal fault. Interestingly people, high gentry, who are evading taxes are the big supporter of US aid.

I am here concluding this, you present a view that US aid is inevitable and we couldn't survive without it. Here some facts regarding our resources. 5th largest gold mine, 7th largest copper mine, 1st largest chromium mine, 5th largest milk producer, 3rd largest coal reserves, 7th nuclear power, 6th largest army, 4 best army of the world, 11th largest wheat producer, 12th largest rice producer, and a long list. In spite these facts, you still think that the US aid is inevitable. The biggest broblem is lack of leadership and bad governance.

64 years of country's history proved that aid never changed us towards betterment and it couldn't in future, it will push us more towards vulnerabilities. No survival is far better than this survival with such vulnerabilities. We need first step, just first stone to throw, someone has to challenge this status quo. Shifting the Pak-US relationships never mean to draw a battle but to establish relations on equitable terms.

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“There is no God but You (Allah Almighty), You are far exalted and above all weaknesses, and I was indeed the wrongdoer”. AL-QURAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invincible Farraha Your views are emotionally driven with unrealistic poetry. Is there any justification of OBL presence in Pakistan? if not. then we are not entitled to expect apology from USA. To eradicate corruption from pakistan a piece of cake? Who will eradicate it? How long it will take-- any time frame? We need to think pragmatically when it comes to International relations. Regards,

Invincible...
See again;CSS Forums - View Single Post - Ghulami hai muqaddar mein abhi tak...??

I just presented "Facts" and "news".
I didn't give my own views......
poetry..unrealistic?,what's an accuse.!
It's "relevant",you can't refuse..

My question was;

Quote:

Do you see an independent Pakistan ahead?Or you think Pakistan can't survive by rejecting foriegn aid and by looking into eyes of America?Are you satisfied by this daring step or it is merely a threat for Pakistan's economy as well as for sovereignty;a choice of some fools?

And your answer itself is a barrage of questions

I'm looking forward to your expert views on above asked questions rather critical analysis of poetry.

__________________
Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!