Round of applauses for you.Thanks God, there are people who can differntiate between right and wrong.

@Respected critics:
you people know nothing about forces and the ISI,their modus operandi,and the risk they undertake to save Pakistan from the onslaught of a would be aggressor and make us sleep tight at night.Mark Twain,LoL! had people like you in mind when he said“One mustn't criticize other people on grounds where he can't stand perpendicular himself”.

As for the Question as to who is Pakistan's enemy no.1,here is my reply.
1.USA and Israel:Marks:50/100
why?
1.USA and Israel,the Nazis of the world’s economic systems (Economy as deemed by most of the analysts is the root cause of our demise,our miserable plight).They are the proponents of the new economic order, and the new great game. They are not only affecting Pakistan’s economy through WTO, IMF and the world bank, but are also involved disseminating propaganda against the Army and the ISI of Pakistan..They have also been successful in molding the opinion of Pakistani masses(who being so illiterate are prone to getting carried away in their thinking, because they lack brains, they accept what they are told,attitude owes largely to their habit of accepting blindly what the mullahs and the media says)through their advanced media.

2.They are bent on proving us a terrorist state.
3.They want to sabotage our nuclear arsenal.
4.Mossad and CIA are involved in serious missions to dismantle our beloved motherland.

2.Politicians:Marks:30/100
1.Inept
2.Corrupt
3.Don’t pay taxes, despite owning large industries
5.Defaming The army and ISI
6.Pioneers of criticism culture in Pakistan
7.Always invite Army to take over when they can’t run the country
8.Country is in dire straits and they are busy making amendments and stuff and enlivening dead spirits that have long gone-to alam-e-barzakh .
9.Eaters and cheaters of our land.

3.Masses:Marks10/100
why?
1.Uneducated
2.moral less
3.Divided into sects, communal hatred
4.Brainwashed either by mullah or by the western media
5.Love shooting their mouths off.

The remaining 10 marks,for the army's mismanagements, mishandlings..

Analyzing simple things and commenting on things that speak for itself is no rocket science. Our Army has lost wars repeatedly, they have disturbed the political system of our country every now and then, they have not taken any measures to stop the violation of our sovereignty, They bow to what you call "enemies" of pakistan, they respect and listen to them more than they listen to their own country public and the list goes on and on and on. You and no one else can prove any of the things I mentioned to be false and this is all because of their incompetence. I would have not been upset if they were at least trying, losing is no problem If one tries and gives his/her best but they are simply doing NOTHING.


That's your view point, I and others might not necessarily agree with you but your views and opinion(s) are respected, Here are mine (using your marks style)

1 - ARMY & ISI (75 %)
2 - Current Leaders & Politicians ( 5 %)
3 - AWAM ( 20% , because they elect politicians, they openly accepts all that is given to them, they don't retaliate and they don't raise their voice and/or tries for a change)

You might be wondering it's awam that should be given 75%, right? Yes, I would have given them that % but I didn't because there are some other things which we should know about awam and that are

1 - Most of them are poor
2 - They are interested in feeding their family and children which itself is a very hard job for them, let alone trying something for a change
3 - They are weak
4 - They have no proper direction
5 - They fear (police, army, security agencies etc)


Please do NOT blame politicians for everything because they are not the only ones involved in corruption, army itself is involved in corruption, isn't it? There's a simple rule, take it or not but it's a hard fact .. and that rule is that EVERY PERSON ON EARTH IS CORRUPT AND WILL INDULGE IN CORRUPTION IF AND ONLY IF HE/SHE GETS A CHANCE TO DO CORRUPTION UNLESS AND UNTIL THE SYSTEM HE/SHE WORKS IN IS FEARED BY THE PERSON (ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES ARE FIRM AND STRICT) AND/OR THE FEAR OF ACCOUNTABILITY BY GOD HEREAFTER IS BELIEVED BY THE PERSON HIMSELF/HERSELF and the system of pakistan we know is corrupt by it's nature, no "shareef" and/or "honest" person can survive in this system happily .. This is however some other topic which is very debatable but anyways thought I should tell you some HARD FACTS

Please add Pakistan armed forces in the list as well....Under the tabe, behind the scene, in the disguise they are destroying foundations of this country...

__________________
Saad Bin Rafiq

No Sis, you’re wrong. Criticize the army for their corrupt element. And then ascertain what percentage that comprises as well as “what kind of corruption” they are involved in. When you begin to make up an image, make sure you’ve seen it from all perspectives. What you and some others here are conjuring up, is only Half the picture. As far as speaking against the Generals is concerned, come on, if they hang you for speaking against them, Kamran Khan, Hamid Mir, Shirin Mazari, Imran Khan, Asma Jehangir, Quatrina Hussain, Mehr Bokhari, the entire PML(N) leadership would be standing before a firing squad. Notice a trend. They may retaliate ONLY, and if ONLY it threatens the state.

Saleem Shahzad’s case isn’t so simple either. Firstly, there is no proof that the ISI was behind it. Lets see what quarters have blamed the ISI. The first one to do so was the NYC based Human rights watch. Followed by Hillary Clinton’s statement condemning it. Followed by Human rights Commission of Pakistan (headed by a notorious Asma Jehangir). This lead was taken by most of the journalistic community of Pakistan. We shouldn’t be so dumb as to not be able to make a connection between Abbt incident, Mehran Base attack, Sarfaraz Shah assassination (strange that the Rangers let the media take coverage of the incident) and Saleem Shahzad murder- all within the span of just 1 month. Somebody wants the credibility of the security forces drowned. Today even the media and analysts are pointing to this maligning campaign. Logically, it doesn’t happen like that honey. But since as a nation, we don’t think and merely follow what the tv says- this mayhem is bound to happen.
Secondly, if we assume the ISI kidnapped and murdered him. Saleem Shahzad had the kind of information that if published meant havoc for Pakistans nuclear security. He wanted to publish about the insider involvement of the navy. Traitors will always be there. But how are you going to explain this to intl community that is bent on isolating us? The next eye will be on Pakistan’s nuclear program personnel (despite regular IAEA Personnel accountability program visits).
Thirdly, there are some facts that cannot be ignored. Saleem Shahzad was on good terms with 2 ISI officers, who would regularly meet him. One of them, khalid pervez is now the new commandent, Mehran Base, Khi. This KP told him a few months ago, that the TTP is out to get him according to some unconfirmed reports, but if he finds his name on any terrorist black list- he will inform Shahzad. There is more to this story than meets the eye.
Lastly, if the ISI really does feel threatened by someone, they don’t jump down to killing him. They arent crazy or stupid. They usually blackmail him with a horde of other stuff like threat of personal life, children, parents, property etc. And in 99.9% of the cases, the individual backs off- if not for fear of his own life, then for his children’s. That’s human nature, you cant challenge that.

As far as your political workers are concerned, Im sorry, but they live and die just like that, innocently thinking their parties will make a difference for them. Most of these workers do all kinds of dirty linen for their party leaders too in case of ANP, MQM, PPP Youth Wing, JASQAM, Jamaat-e-Islami and the list goes on. If you’re talking about leaders, read below what ive addressed to Polaris. Its also meant for you.

Im sorry Polaris, at the risk of giving you another cardiac arrest, I have to speak up one last time. Isliye bhi, kyunke aap mujhse directly baat karne ke bajaaye, doosro ko over-smart comments dete phir rahe ho. Woh majority jo army ko, politicians se zyada favor karti hai, uske liye is mulk mai unse zyada credible log bache hi nahi hain. Woh sab, aur mai, Pak army se paycheck nahi lete, jis tarah aap imply karna chahte hain. Politicians ki incompetence ki wajah se har dafa army wapas aati rahi hai. Balke eik poori list un politicians ki hai jinho ne army ko KHUD bulaya hai har dafe. Kaun nahi hai is list mai? Sharifs, jinko koi aam din pe pooche bhi na, unko army laai hai. Mustafa Khar, Hafeez peerzada, gulam Mustafa jatoi, woh politicians hain jinho ne khud army ko intervention mai madad ki hai. MQM army ke dum pe chal rahi hai. Pir Pagaro GHQ ka banda kehta hai apne aap ko.

Sab choro. Judiciary ka maamla inse nahi sambhal raha tha- so they dragged Kiyani at night, uske saath meetings ki, aur kisi baat pe agree nahi kar rahe the. Kiyani has gone on record to snub the PM and president that they are the ones to drag him in between, and how lousy can you people get. BB ki government ko destabilize karne ke liye, yeh Sharifs aur baki saari opposition, army ko apni loyalty ki gurantees dete rahe hain, unke paas jaa jaa ke request ki hai govt torne ki- after which the Mehran Bank scandal occurred. Kya baat kar rahe ho aap? Eik aam aadmi ko kya pata 18th amendment se kya hoga? Usko toh roti, bijli, paani se matlab hai. Musharraf laakh bura sahi- itna bura haal to nahi tha jo aaj hai? Kalabagh dam who banana chahta tha-kisne roka? Sindh aur KP ke politicians ne. Jernailon ne nahi. Saare politicians, jo aur kisi waqt mai united nahi hote, us mauqe pe kaise unite hogaye? They threatened to mass resign from Mushy’s cabinet (I feel he should have given a damn about it, lekin agar aisa karta toh ‘dictator’ ka label aur lagta). Sindh Thar Coal project mai pata hai kya problems hain sab se bari? Wahan ke wadere aur landlords (aka politicians) oonchi se oonchi royalties maang rahe hain- aur kaam siwai kuch blocks ke, shuru hi nahi ho paaraha.

Army in sab se kahi behtar hai. It defends its frontiers well, it runs hundreds of schools and colleges around the country, it is there to fight off any calamity or disaster, it thinks first and foremost about the country, apart from a few Generals none of them have heavy foreign bank accounts (they get a plot of land on retirement, and that too is frowned upon)- while ALL your politicians have them, and last but not the least, even if they gain power, they have done so rising from the grass-roots level, working VERY hard to gain prominence, and on the basis of their capability. They’ve started off as Lieutenants, sleeping, eating with NCO’s, bearing extreme heat and cold, living off Rs. 10,000 a month, and they take the bullet if need be. Eik Jamaadar ke bete ko opportunity milti hai ke who kal ko eik 4-star general ban jae, apni mehnat ke dum pe. Lekin kis lowly se ‘political party worker’ ko aaj tak minister bante dekha hai? Jo 1-2 ko dekha hai, who party leaders ki chaaploosi karke bante hain. Aise logo ko maine khud, literally party leaders ke joote utaarte tak dekha hai, aur yeh to main buhat he saaf suthri baat bata rahi hoo.
Aur haan, jis tarah ki threats is waqt Pakistan ko andar aur bahar se hain, yeh army ke hi efforts ki wajah se chal raha hai abhi tak. Politicians toh cheeni tak stores mai nahi puhncha sakte.

Lol. Dogs who bark seldom bite. You had previously justified corruption because you have your XYZ reasons. People who justify wrong stuff, can never garner the courage to fight for the right (which they hold to be right). These are 2 contradictory natures of man. And you aren’t good enough to carry both either.



And what are you demonstrating? That you are a failed standup comedian?




Previous experience has also shown, other members pointing out at your incomplete and incorrect definitions even in math, an area where you probably work. Candidguy did that if you remember. So stop aspiring to learn stuff from other fields when you’ve had half baked attempts at your own.




You haven’t proved I am ignorant. You have only tried making fun. And throughout history, the fools have flocked together to make fun of the wise. Your company just created a product which is a good mix of naiveté and an abysmal complex- and they’ve brand named it ‘mukt’.




You certainly cant be the one to discredit my stuff cuz- hey, Im sorry, who did you say you were again?
One who has no business other than to blame the army for literally all the mishaps of Pakistan (while rest of the crowd isn’t too extremist in that view), can never afford to call anyone else- emotional. Youre guilty of that crime. I prefer the army to bugger politicians anyday, ALL for good reason as described above to Polaris. But what you’re doing is to draw out its faults, that sensible people describe as natural to any system. That’s hardly, logical, a favorite word of yours that you haven’t ever looked up in the D-book.



Look how you talk. Proves your juvenility more than anyone else’s. No matter how hard you try, you can never learn to talk like a mature adult, can you? Its time to pass your matriculation boy, or you’ll be stuck in a rut.

Hahahah, oh so that’s why all the bitterness huh? You know wild animals like hyenas and wolves never attack due to their valorous instinct. They do it when they’re scared.

I know despite the above reflection, people like you, continue to harbor a childish disposition of attacking anyone and everyone they find. They think that by being arrogant or mean, they are establishing a superiority of knowledge or wisdom- although its anything but that. What you’ve yourself just said, isn’t a credit. Its stupidity.

Small shoots stiffly point upwards. Large, fruitful trees ALWAYS bend downwards. But I don’t see that kind of decency in you.


Take that democracy and stuff it in your mouth. That’ll keep you quiet, since youre so full of the stuff. And that’s all I care of a hollow democracy. To be ingested and then gotten rid off by shallow-minded cattle. And who said, I gave you the freedom to speak to me? Since you haven’t appointed me, or selected me, or elected me- I am not answerable to you. And YOU do not have the power to shun my claims (that are always backed by sources and not woven or imagined like yours), neither are you the new-age messiah of false claims, so please, like, stop pretending to be great. Doesn’t fare well with you, and also leaves us all with baffled and amused expressions.

Actually on a second thought, the above statement reminds me of a failure in life who is dying for some kind of grandeur and appreciation. Well, you arent getting any for cheap tactics or cheap dialogue for that matter. Lol, this statement also reminds me of those cheap 1990's Indian action flicks. "YOU WILL FIND ME WHEREVER THERE IS INJUSTICE", OR "yOU WILL FIND ME WHEREVER THE POOR ARE TRAMPLED" OR "YOU WILL FIND ME READY TO LAY MY LIFE FOR THE MOTHERLAND"!!! Who're you kidding dude? Get a life!

Thanks for Indirectly telling me that you will not bite me but only bark, Appreciated !!

Where have I justified corruption ? Can you please show me the post so that I can reply accordingly ?

No, I am demonstrating that everyone has the right to be stupid, but you abused the privilege.



See? That's enough proof that you don't even read what I write. You have seen his reply but you have not analyzed my counter reply. There was no mistake at all, the mistake was only your ignorance and lack of understanding of the subject. Go and ask a mathematician of your choice about the statements and then come back to me haha

Also what do you mean by "Area where you probably work" lol. I am a student of computer science, I am not a mathematician but I like math because it is directly related with logic.

I don't need to prove anything because you have yourself proven that you are as useful as a wet toilet paper.

I am who I am.

When you mention facts then of course someone has to be blamed. Thing's don't usually happen just like that and of course Army is responsible for all the troubles pakistan has been and is facing. Army has been the cause of our disgrace, shame, humiliation, losses and the list goes on and on and on


See? Instead of answering the question, you choose to come up with a random insult of yours and ignore the question itself because you have no answer as you clearly and openly LIED.


Oh no, I've been speaking the truth regardless of the consequences and I will keep on doing so, what I mentioned was also a truth.

well, brain's aren't everything and in your case believe me they are nothing .. But it's ok, don't feel bad as a lot of people don't have talent so you are not the only one out there.


Why don't you go to the library and brush up on your ignorance? You know what, people like you are the best at all they do and all people like you do is make people think that ignorance can be cured but Stupidity is forever

Oh well, one can't say you have absolutely nothing, after all you have inferiority! To be honest an ordinary human being lives and learn but you just LIVE


I am not surprised you are so against democracy and you fear it .. What else can we expect from a pro-blind-army-supporter ? You don't have to answer If you don't have answers, you can give your brain some rest (If and only if you have one) but If you think you have the answer you should discuss it as this is a discussion forum and discussions are entertained while your philosophy of "not answering because im not elected by you" is welcomed only outside and therefore not entertained

So an Army supporter is also a BIG fan Of Indian movies? Someone who wants a war and bad relations with India now contributes into their cinema by watching bollywood movies? Interesting. However, I stand by my words .. Whenever you come up with a myth, I will bust it. Be prepared and think 100 times before you say anything because sooner or later It will come into my notice and I will bust it in no time (if it's false, of course) and sorry to say but 99% of the things you say is false or un realistic.

In army ,to my observation, few people keep themselves away from corrupt practices , if they get chance.One of my cousion has been working in FGEI from last three years.The department is controlled by Militray officers.All the appointments except those made by FPSC are reference based.Morever, the higher officers leave no avenue where they can get poersonal benifit whther financial or non financial.School vehcles are called for their peronal parties.Corruption is a norm there.

As for as PML is concerned , Killing a leader of national stature is not an easy task and it can bring serious repurcussons for army.

Yes they do retaliate when someone works against state , but not state of Pakistan rather State of Army.They thereselves work against the State of pakistan.Tell me the people who were killed by dictatorial regimes of Ayub and Zia, were they working against state or their rule?

[Secondly, if we assume the ISI kidnapped and murdered him. Saleem Shahzad had the kind of information that if published meant havoc for Pakistans nuclear security.[/quote]

With due apology, No, No, No.Killing an innocent person may have been justified in medival agae but not now.Its atrocity, its cruelity and it must be condemened whosoever commits it.

Aisay Dastoor Ko Subhh-e-Benoor Koo
Main nahee Manta main nahee Mantaaa

You think world is fooll.No Madam its not so.The whole world know what ISI and Pak army is doing.You cant befool the poeple.Unvieling the culprits is crime?and such henious crime whose with death punishment?Such barbarously inflicted killing.No Its not accpetable.

Plz .Ask these Generals to stop this.They canot protect themselves.They are failure and plz khuda kay liay raham karo.Whatever this poornation is undergoing, its seed were sowed by ISI and Army.Who breeded militancy for thrust of dollars? Who earned money?

Humain Khabar hay lutaroon kay sub thikanoon key

Please do mercy on this poor nation.You broken this country.You ruined the political system.You introduced corruption but utterly failed in discharging your prime duty.I am not against the army but the people who commands thsi institution.They should stop enhancing their agendas at the expense of this poor nation.

__________________
Hoee hay jab say mukhalif hawa zamanay key......
Humain bhee dhun see hoee hay diaa jalaanay key

Lol, as i said earlier- you cant 'bust myths' becuz you are warped in them yourself. And you cannot be judge and jury at the same time, because others will have to act as jury to whatever i say. Since you're the most hated person on the forum, according to your own admittance, its also clear your views arent endorsed by many. So as I said earlier, LAY OFF from 'threatening' me with your presence every now and then. Its too herculean a task. Low lives like you DO NOT intimidate me, and I WILL WRITE DOWN WHATEVER THERE IS TO WRITE IN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH. You are the last person I or anyone here fears because ultimately one fears only graceful, dignified individuals- not urchins like you, who end up being equally insulted back by the crowd.

PS. About calling me a wet toilet paper. First i urge you to 'GET LOST' AND LEARN SOME BASIC CONVERSATIONAL MANNERS AS WELL AS SELF-CONTROL while you walk out of your monkey cage. I can see the type of upbringing your folks have managed in your case, and Im sure they too are ASHAMED at the job done. If they have failed to put a leash on your jungle animal instincts, please do a favor on your life and career by reading "Etiquettes for dummies". With a mouth like that i assure you, you arent bound to go places. You are experiencing a chronic case of verbal diarrhea which you need to treat first, before coming and splattering it on public forums. If your caliber is simply restricted to hurling personal insults-sometimes against various institutions, sometimes against individuals- and knowing ZILCH about technical aspects and facts as they are- I dont think Ill ever reply to your myopic, childish posts ever again. On the flip side, if cheap thrill is all your looking for, please join a street gang (if they dont consider you a disgrace) where im sure you'll suffice by bursting tires instead of myths.

* DEAR MODERATORS, KINDLY TAKE NOTE OF SUCH FILTHY LANGUAGE BEING USED BY THIS INDIVIDUAL. I HAVE MYSELF RECEIVED COMMENTS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE TIRED OF HIS MUD FLINGING TACTICS. He himself says he is the most hated person on the forum- so please do something about him because we are here to engage in healthy, fruitful debates not personal vendettas.*

I think we ourselves are our own worst enemy.its not the army...who are doing their best and honeslty in this corrupt scenario...its the best they can do....its not USA...they are just doing what is best for them and their own country..and if we are not able to take care of ourselves...we can't blame others for our weakness.Same goes for India. they hate us and make no secret of it.but so do we.They will take advantage of any opportunity to weaken us furhter...but so would we.So why is it our fault that our country has been going through one crisis after another?...becoz of our apathy, narrow minded and selfish behavior.we can't pay our taxes...most of us dun care to vote..we have corrupt politicians...but we can't be bothered to try for public office ourself...we'd blame the administration for everything becoz thats convenient..we can't even do sm minor commmunity service like cover up an open manhole so that anyone doesn't fall in it and we keep on throwing the garbage wherever we like...its the government's job to keep the city clean....we'd just sit back and blame someone else for it.andmost importantly...ever since the creation of Pakistan we ppl haven't gotten over the ethnic problem....punjabis, pathans, sindhis, mahajirs, balochis are still killing each other and we'd blame the gov for that too.oh yes India and USA are exploiting our internal problems...but thats becoz we give them the opportunity...its high time we took some responsibility as citizens of this country instead of demanding all the benefits and giving back nothing in return.

__________________
Life is action,not contemplation!

It is you who have the tendency to be the jury and the judge at the same time, You should act upon your own advise. You are free to write whatever you want to write and I am free to bust your myths and I will keep on doing it. As long as you come up with myths, they will be busted!

Secondly, just because I am the most hated person on the forum (infact, lets make it on earth, to make you feel happy) does not necessarily means I am wrong. You once again tried to be the jury and the judge yourself here. People often hate those who say the truth and they hate those even more who openly say the truth caring less about x y z.

And seriously people like you are so slow that they take lessons from the turtles and now I am sure you have the brains of a bird.

Before asking me to learn manners, why don't you learn some manners yourself? You lack self control and have no conversational manners and this can be proven by anyone who reads your posts which are less informational and more insulting and If you think you can get away with it then you are wrong. Respect is earned and you should learn this and I guess you have already learned it by now the hard way

1 - The language you used and the terms you used were as filthy (if not more) than the terms I used.

2 - Just in a post back you were blaming me that I cry to moderators and remove your posts, hahahah you just proved what kind of a hypocritical person you are who makes things from him/her self and then blames it on others

3 - No debate of yours has been healthy or fruitful so far because all your sayings are lies and myths with no common sense but I don't blame you because common sense is a sense which is not very common

4 - personal vendettas ? It was you who tries to go off topic, Instead of answer the questions you go with the easy way and try to change the topic by some random insults which doesn't even make sense

5 - Your debate and manners represents your family background, It Also explains in what sort of environment were you brought up in, My sympathies are with you.

6 - Any similarity between you and a respectful person is pure coincidence

But seriously, If truth is stranger than fiction then you must be the truth because your mind isn't so much twisted as badly sprained and to make a long story short if you were twice as smart, you'd still be stupid. I seriously feel sorry for you *Gives you a tissue paper* wipe out your tears and don't jump into a debate which you cannot handle for the next time