Pakistan as a Dar-ul-Harb.

[Venerated]

Dear friends,

Dar-ul-Harb means a place ruled by infidels. In other words,it is a place where no Islamic injunctions are followed or where Islamic injunctions or fundamentals have ceased to exist.During the British rule in 19th century,the sub-continent was also declared a Dar-ul-Harb because the Islamic injunctions were not allowed to be followed.Thus,the muslims started migrating to Afghanistan.

Similarly in today's Pakistan,the Islamic injunctions regarding bribery or corruption are not followed.If a true Muslim or an honest man follows these injunctions or principles,he faces innumerable difficulties.He is not allowed to work freely.Rather he is sidelined.Even on the sideline, he faces difficulties.However, such difficulties depend upon the post or position on which one works. If one is on a lower post,he faces less diffculties as compared to the difficulties of a higher post. If one is a CSP officer,he will face numerous hadrships.

So in the light of the above discussion,i want to ask if we can call Pakistan a Dar-ul-Harb regarding corruption or bribery.

I want to ask another question with regard to the above issue. That is if corruption can be legalized in Pakistan. In other words,can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan? I want to discuss this point on basis of the following argument.

I read one of the articles, regarding veil for women in France, of engineer Asghar Ali. He argued that the Muslim women in France can move without veil. He quoted a reference to a fatwa by Imam Juma of Egypt(i doubt his name).Once imam Juma was asked if selling wine by a muslim in foreign or non-muslim land had been allowed or Islamic. He replied positively.He said yes,it was Islamic to sell wine in a non-muslim land because Muslim had no control over the land. Mr.Engineer Asghar Ali argued that on this basis Muslim women in France can move without veil.

Similarly,we, as an individual, have no control over the corruption. So,on the basis of the above discussion, can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan?


Regards.

[Hasan Raza Awan]

Originally Posted by Venerated

I want to ask another question with regard to the above issue. That is if corruption can be legalized in Pakistan. In other words,can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan? I want to discuss this point on basis of the following argument.

I read one of the articles, regarding veil for women in France, of engineer Asghar Ali. He argued that the Muslim women in France can move without veil. He quoted a reference to a fatwa by Imam Juma of Egypt(i doubt his name).Once imam Juma was asked if selling wine by a muslim in foreign or non-muslim land had been allowed or Islamic. He replied positively.He said yes,it was Islamic to sell wine in a non-muslim land because Muslim had no control over the land. Mr.Engineer Asghar Ali argued that on this basis Muslim women in France can move without veil.

Similarly,we, as an individual, have no control over the corruption. So,on the basis of the above discussion, can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan?


Regards.

brother i read ur post.. but corruption is not only prohibited in islam but olso in other religions..n if u asking regarding religion then to corruption allo nai but agr system ko dekho to corruption khan nai hai kis mulk main nai hai?? n rahi bat legalize krne ki to systm ko chlane k liye kuch chezon ko illegal rakhna prta hai n corruption un main se ik hai

[Venerated]

brother i read ur post.. but corruption is not only prohibited in islam but olso in other religions..n if u asking regarding religion then to corruption allo nai but agr system ko dekho to corruption khan nai hai kis mulk main nai hai??

brother ur first point is regarding corruption in various religions.yes it is true that all religions forbid corruption.but today religion is hardly followed in any country.mazhab to khatam ho gaya hai takreeban.lekin paancho ungliyan barabar nahin hain.there a few people who want to follow religion in true sense.i asked these questions on behalf of these true people.aise logo k liye hamara system buhat mushkil hai.

and bro we can not compare pakistan with other countries with regard to corruption because corruption in pakistan is rampant.if pakistan continues with the current speed in corruption,then pakistan would be on top on the list of the corrupt countries.

n rahi bat legalize krne ki to systm ko chlane k liye kuch chezon ko illegal rakhna prta hai n corruption un main se ik hai

bro q na hum is cheez ko legal kar dain q k ye cheez honest admi ko jeenay nahin deti?us ko nokri chornay pe majbur kar deti hai jo us k bachon ki rozi roti hai.

[Hasan Raza Awan]

Originally Posted by Venerated

brother ur first point is regarding corruption in various religions.yes it is true that all religions forbid corruption.but today religion is hardly followed in any country.mazhab to khatam ho gaya hai takreeban.lekin paancho ungliyan barabar nahin hain.there a few people who want to follow religion in true sense.i asked these questions on behalf of these true people.aise logo k liye hamara system buhat mushkil hai.

and bro we can not compare pakistan with other countries with regard to corruption because corruption in pakistan is rampant.if pakistan continues with the current speed in corruption,then pakistan would be on top on the list of the corrupt countries.

bro q na hum is cheez ko legal kar dain q k ye cheez honest admi ko jeenay nahin deti?us ko nokri chornay pe majbur kar deti hai jo us k bachon ki rozi roti hai.

mazhab khtam nai hua bus ye kisi ki priroty nai rhi na ye prob hai bro...han i agree k honest bnda is system amin mushkil se survive krta hai....v can compare Pakistan with other countruies bro aap ko facts n figures pta hon to aap dekho gay k Pakistan main corruption bht se cntries se km hai but prob ye hai k koi chek n balnce nai hai na.each n every peson is corrupt dude...
nai brother isko jis din legal kia us din ghreeb aadmi haqeeat main mara jayega n i mean it....abhi tk jo koi lay man bacha hai na is mulk main wo is liye hai k corruption ko lega nai kia gya jis din ye legal ho gae paise wale to survive ker jayen gay ghreeb bnda mara jayega

[GanXTeR]

Originally Posted by Venerated

Dear friends,

Dar-ul-Harb means a place ruled by infidels. In other words,it is a place where no Islamic injunctions are followed or where Islamic injunctions or fundamentals have ceased to exist.During the British rule in 19th century,the sub-continent was also declared a Dar-ul-Harb because the Islamic injunctions were not allowed to be followed.Thus,the muslims started migrating to Afghanistan.

Similarly in today's Pakistan,the Islamic injunctions regarding bribery or corruption are not followed.If a true Muslim or an honest man follows these injunctions or principles,he faces innumerable difficulties.He is not allowed to work freely.Rather he is sidelined.Even on the sideline, he faces difficulties.However, such difficulties depend upon the post or position on which one works. If one is on a lower post,he faces less diffculties as compared to the difficulties of a higher post. If one is a CSP officer,he will face numerous hadrships.

So in the light of the above discussion,i want to ask if we can call Pakistan a Dar-ul-Harb regarding corruption or bribery.

Regards.

Darrusalam means land of peace
darulharab meanz land where war/fight no peace

it is misconception that darulsalam meanz where islamic injunctions practiced
iz india darul harab?? or darusalam?? sum muftiz/molviz consider n declare india as darulsalam

now the issue is whether pakistan is a country where islamic injunction r governed?...in my opinion practically No...in theory yes ...coz consitution says pakistan is an islamic state n laws/affairs of state be govenred in accorandacne with islamic injunction..!!

[Noor_2009]

@Venerated

look brother................. sab sa bari example nabi pak PBUH ki ha kia ap ak muslim socitay ma pahda howa tha? kia ab na just non muslim things ki wajha sa migrate kia tha?


look ap na osh waqat tek migrate ni kia tha jab tek ap ko loggo na islam ka mutabik life guzarna ni di thi ap per zulam start ker dia tha. ap ki ibadath ko rokna kikoshish ki thi...........

i don't thing ap ka sth ahsa koi masla ha jish per ap migrate keroo........... osh place ko theek kerna ki bahja osh place sa migrat kerna theek ha?

kia koi ap ko namaz perna sa rokta ha? ap ko garoo sa bahir nikalta ha? pakistan koi darulharab ni ha

[Hamza Salick]

Originally Posted by Venerated

Dear friends,

Dar-ul-Harb means a place ruled by infidels. In other words,it is a place where no Islamic injunctions are followed or where Islamic injunctions or fundamentals have ceased to exist.During the British rule in 19th century,the sub-continent was also declared a Dar-ul-Harb because the Islamic injunctions were not allowed to be followed.Thus,the muslims started migrating to Afghanistan.

Similarly in today's Pakistan,the Islamic injunctions regarding bribery or corruption are not followed.If a true Muslim or an honest man follows these injunctions or principles,he faces innumerable difficulties.He is not allowed to work freely.Rather he is sidelined.Even on the sideline, he faces difficulties.However, such difficulties depend upon the post or position on which one works. If one is on a lower post,he faces less diffculties as compared to the difficulties of a higher post. If one is a CSP officer,he will face numerous hadrships.

So in the light of the above discussion,i want to ask if we can call Pakistan a Dar-ul-Harb regarding corruption or bribery.

I want to ask another question with regard to the above issue. That is if corruption can be legalized in Pakistan. In other words,can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan? I want to discuss this point on basis of the following argument.

I read one of the articles, regarding veil for women in France, of engineer Asghar Ali. He argued that the Muslim women in France can move without veil. He quoted a reference to a fatwa by Imam Juma of Egypt(i doubt his name).Once imam Juma was asked if selling wine by a muslim in foreign or non-muslim land had been allowed or Islamic. He replied positively.He said yes,it was Islamic to sell wine in a non-muslim land because Muslim had no control over the land. Mr.Engineer Asghar Ali argued that on this basis Muslim women in France can move without veil.

Similarly,we, as an individual, have no control over the corruption. So,on the basis of the above discussion, can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan?


Regards.

Brother,Egypt k fatwaaz pe mt jaiye.Me ne in k kaafi controversial fatwahs parhe hey.Ino ne sood leyna bhi jaiz karar de dia tha.Egyptian Fatwahs normally come from 'Jamia Al Azhar' or/and with its auspices.In scholarly circles,it is commonly termed as a 'Fatwah manufacturing factory'.You go their,give them money,get a fatwah of your liking.I know k hmare Islamic Finance ki field me Egypt se kaee contradictory Fatwahs bhi originate huy he.So I have basically lost trust in any Fatwah coming from Egypt.

[Fatima47]

Originally Posted by Venerated

Dear friends,

Dar-ul-Harb means a place ruled by infidels. In other words,it is a place where no Islamic injunctions are followed or where Islamic injunctions or fundamentals have ceased to exist.During the British rule in 19th century,the sub-continent was also declared a Dar-ul-Harb because the Islamic injunctions were not allowed to be followed.Thus,the muslims started migrating to Afghanistan.

Similarly in today's Pakistan,the Islamic injunctions regarding bribery or corruption are not followed.If a true Muslim or an honest man follows these injunctions or principles,he faces innumerable difficulties.He is not allowed to work freely.Rather he is sidelined.Even on the sideline, he faces difficulties.However, such difficulties depend upon the post or position on which one works. If one is on a lower post,he faces less diffculties as compared to the difficulties of a higher post. If one is a CSP officer,he will face numerous hadrships.

So in the light of the above discussion,i want to ask if we can call Pakistan a Dar-ul-Harb regarding corruption or bribery.

I want to ask another question with regard to the above issue. That is if corruption can be legalized in Pakistan. In other words,can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan? I want to discuss this point on basis of the following argument.

I read one of the articles, regarding veil for women in France, of engineer Asghar Ali. He argued that the Muslim women in France can move without veil. He quoted a reference to a fatwa by Imam Juma of Egypt(i doubt his name).Once imam Juma was asked if selling wine by a muslim in foreign or non-muslim land had been allowed or Islamic. He replied positively.He said yes,it was Islamic to sell wine in a non-muslim land because Muslim had no control over the land. Mr.Engineer Asghar Ali argued that on this basis Muslim women in France can move without veil.

Similarly,we, as an individual, have no control over the corruption. So,on the basis of the above discussion, can we say that corruption is legal in Pakistan?


Regards.

Sub-continent was declared dar-ul-harb during Khilafat movement (and people started migrating, something known to us as migration movement). In technical sense, it implies a situation where is an active war-zone or where it becomes necessary for Muslims to migrate to other places so that Islam could live on. What you are trying to say will actually bury Islamic teachings so the answer to your question is NO.

P.S: Purely my opinion.

[Venerated]

look brother................. sab sa bari example nabi pak PBUH ki ha kia ap ak muslim socitay ma pahda howa tha? kia ab na just non muslim things ki wajha sa migrate kia tha?


look ap na osh waqat tek migrate ni kia tha jab tek ap ko loggo na islam ka mutabik life guzarna ni di thi ap per zulam start ker dia tha. ap ki ibadath ko rokna kikoshish ki thi...........

i don't thing ap ka sth ahsa koi masla ha jish per ap migrate keroo........... osh place ko theek kerna ki bahja osh place sa migrat kerna theek ha?

kia koi ap ko namaz perna sa rokta ha? ap ko garoo sa bahir nikalta ha? pakistan koi darulharab ni ha

@noor_2009.
bro first of all we should cease to compare ourselves with the holy prophet(pbuh) because none can be like him.however v must follow his teachings.

bro my question is not abt migrating.rather it is abt corruption. mera ap question nahin samjhe. mein pakistan ko dar ul harb is liye nahin keh raha k yahan ibaadat se roka ja raha hai ya koi islamic injunction ko follow karnay se roka ja raha hai.bal k is liye keh raha hun k yahan islamic injunctions regarding bribery ko follow karnay nahin dia ja raha. pak puri tahar dar ul harb nahin hai lekin is hawalay(corruption) se to dar ul harb hai na?

Brother,Egypt k fatwaaz pe mt jaiye.Me ne in k kaafi controversial fatwahs parhe hey.Ino ne sood leyna bhi jaiz karar de dia tha.Egyptian Fatwahs normally come from 'Jamia Al Azhar' or/and with its auspices.In scholarly circles,it is commonly termed as a 'Fatwah manufacturing factory'.You go their,give them money,get a fatwah of your liking.I know k hmare Islamic Finance ki field me Egypt se kaee contradictory Fatwahs bhi originate huy he.So I have basically lost trust in any Fatwah coming from Egypt.

Bro Hamza.

It may b rite that Egypt is a manufacturing house of fatwas but i am not quoting directly the fatwa of imam Iuma.Rather i quoted engineer Asghar ali who had taken reference from fatwa of imam Juma.

Sub-continent was declared dar-ul-harb during Khilafat movement (and people started migrating, something known to us as migration movement). In technical sense, it implies a situation where is an active war-zone or where it becomes necessary for Muslims to migrate to other places so that Islam could live on. What you are trying to say will actually bury Islamic teachings so the answer to your question is NO.

P.S: Purely my opinion.

@Fatima47.

Sister,firstly,there is no question of migrating. Secondly,yes there is here war zone. The war is between the honest and the dishonest. An honest man fights,on regular basis,to save himself from corruption and bribery. Jab us ko pressure aatay hain,jab us ko hataya jata hai,jab us ko far-flung areas mein post kia jata hai etc.This is a fight on his part.

Aur sister wesay b kon si islamic injunctions yahan follow ho rahi hain practically jo ye cheez karnay se islamic teachings bury ho jae gi?islamic teachings suspended to already hain.

mein pakistan ko dar ul harb fully nahin kehna chahta.rather it is dar ul harb with reference to corruption only q k islamic injunctions regarding corruption are not allowed to be followed.

[Fatima47]

Originally Posted by Venerated

@noor_2009.

@Fatima47.

Sister,firstly,there is no question of migrating. Secondly,yes there is here war zone. The war is between the honest and the dishonest. An honest man fights,on regular basis,to save himself from corruption and bribery. Jab us ko pressure aatay hain,jab us ko hataya jata hai,jab us ko far-flung areas mein post kia jata hai etc.This is a fight on his part.

Aur sister wesay b kon si islamic injunctions yahan follow ho rahi hain practically jo ye cheez karnay se islamic teachings bury ho jae gi?islamic teachings suspended to already hain.

mein pakistan ko dar ul harb fully nahin kehna chahta.rather it is dar ul harb with reference to corruption only q k islamic injunctions regarding corruption are not allowed to be followed.

I was never telling you or anyone else to migrate. I was just trying to explain the concept of dar-ul-harb and the related concept of dar-ul-aman. Plus, Pakistan is actually a dar-ul-harb in the literal and techincal sense of the word.

I got your point and this is what I was trying to explain. Legalizing corruption will pave the way for Islamic teachings to dwindle down the earth. Plus, how can you legalize a thing when it has been termed as haram by Allah or His Prophet (P.B.U.H)? When it comes to Islam, laws are derived and never made. Do you know the principle of permissibility? Whatever takes you away from Islamic injunctions, cannot be legalized. Period.

And those who want to follow Islamic injunctions are still living their lives according to Islamic norms. At the end of day, you have your priorities, this world or the next.