that's the problem, they are not being practiced...

be practical??? yes, be practical...


and when you name someone as someone, you expect them to behave like their name...

dear friend if a woman is dancing in a marriage, how do you ascertain that she is a call girl?

in how many countries of OIC have you got such a demographic soup as in Pakistan?

has history got any example of a country like Pakistan? we are a different nation, with unique problems and we have to find our own solutions...

nice to see you back

yes... an islamic state has nothing to do with people drinking wine, it has to check its production and to educate people against it.

an islamic state does not ask you to jump over people's walls and check who is fornicating... it is responsible for:
1. keeping a check on brothels
2. make sure the uncared women are taken care of, so that they don't go into that business

and murder is a psychological crime, unlike adultery which is a spiritual crime, that's why Islam has requested the wards of the murdered to accept blood money...
but remember that the adulterer is to be stoned to death or lashed...

having said that, you can take measures to curb or reduce fornication and wine, but murderers will always be there... regards

Then what about the punishment of lashes for adulterers prescribed in the holy Quran if your great Islamic state doesn't even bother about adulterers just brothels, only those ones that don't bribe the authorities .

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It suggests that your Islamic state has nothing to do with it's citizenry (i.e. Muslims), if they have problems they are crazy and should educate themselves. All your great Islamic state has to do is meddle in other countries to spread Islam , like they can't jump walls but they can sneak borders . Give me one sensible reason why a crazy like me should support your Islamic state if it can't even protect me from fellow crazy murderers .

If the Islamic state 'doesn't care' but there is punishment in Islam for certain acts, who will carry it out; mobs .

BTW this is exactly what happens here

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Once Jang Group held a seminar in connection with identifying the problems of Pakistan and what their solution can be....guest speakers were a mix of Historians,Political Scientists,Secular and Religious leaders and all of them sat together in order to fullfil the agenda of that seminar.Now on the last day of the seminar was a question answer session...A student got up from his seat and asked A Progressive,Secular,leftist thinker Sibt-E-Hasan to reply to his query

His query was ""Sir ek jumlay main PAkisatan k Jumla Masail ka hal bta dain""

Now what Sibt-E-Hasan replied was a master piece...He went like ""Sarmayadaar ki aaant(Intestine) se maulvi ka gala daba do PAkistan thhek hojaegah""

And the whole hall started to clap and cheer for the great SIbt-E-Hasan.

In my view we should comeout of this useless discussion of deciding that whether Pakistan was founded as a an Islamic State or as A Secular State we should only bother about what we need as a state and as a nation right now...To come out of the present crisis all we need is to declare the state as secular..announcing that religion is just a personal affair of every citizen and that the state has nothing to do with the religious affairs of any individual...Just do it and see the miracles..The world history is so full with examples of theocratic and religious states who as soon as declared themselves Secular went on progressing and developing..

1. there is no way to prevent murder.
2. there is no way to curb fornication completely.

if i decide to murder you there is no way anyone can prevent that. if i threaten to murder you then all you can get is security and i may get some punishment which will only increase my will to get rid of you. but an islamic state will try to settle our disputes and not let the matter go any further.

a murderer is usually a person having psychopathic nostrums in his personality. these infirmities are born due to abandonment as a child or because of punitive parents. so why were they punitive? because they were poor and uneducated. so the definite way to get rid of murder and psychopaths is to get rid of poverty and illiteracy, that's why i said educate them and education is the responsibility of the state. i did not say that they are crazy and shouls educate themselves.
if a murder is committed, then islam has no problem with the death penalty but recommends blood money because indefinitely it is not the mistake of the psychopath that he is a psychopath.

the adulterer has to be lashed but that requires four witnesses, which is nearly practically impossible. the lashes are recommended as a deterrence so that those people at the margin might be stopped from doing it. even at the time of the prophet s.a.w. there was a brothel running in medina's underground, but because there was no proof no measures were taken.

and where is the islamic state that meddles across borders? which islamic state are you talking about? we are having this discussion because there is no islam in this country...

which country declared themselves as secular and went on to progress? please define progress...

and what has islam got to do with sarmayadars...

for your information the economic business cycle was discovered by economists in 1930s and islam pointed it out in the quran via the story of Haazrat Yousaf A.S. 1400 hundred years ago! and the solution to smooth the business cycle is savings and that is what was recommended by Hazrat Yousaf A.S. who i might mention was appointed as the chief economist. and the panel that you have mentioned had no economist on it so how can they speak of sarmayadrs

similarly 78% economists have come to the conclusion now that savings should be taxed and not spending... Islam told us 1400 years ago to tax savings via zakat and not tax spending.

the word that your dear sibt e hassan used was cleric... my dear friend i agree with you on that but i recommend listening to aalims or scholars if you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan I was not expecting such a poor example. If anyone asks the child, whose name is Sultan, that what is his name. Then the child will not say that since I am not enthroned therefore, my name is not Sultan

I am unable to figure it out that you don't have capacity to comprehend or you don't want to do it. I meant to say sirf Naam rakhny se kuch nh huta, kaam b waisy huny chayhen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan Similarly, though some secular people have created such things which are against our religion however, the name of our country will remain same as Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Insha Allah everything will be perfect and according to the principles of Islam here one day. Don't lose hope as it is also against our religion.

Some Secular-are you kidding?

Did you mean to say that our Army, politicians, Bureaucracy, Business men, Judges, 90 percent of masses are secular; Who is religious then?

They all have been indulged in "Unislamic Practices" since the inception of this country.

By the way you have not cited anything that supports your argument that Islam is being practiced here in the helm of affairs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan Youtube is banned in our country and one of the reason it is showing such things which are against our religion and culture. So, you can not give example of Youtube which is already controversial in our country and also banned due to such reasons.

Try Google then One can use his/her eyes as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan In other countries Law is very strict so people can not even think to break the law. For example: Saudi Arabia.

1.Saudi Arab--the country of hypocrite leadership. Just give me any reference from the annals of Islamic books where Monarchy has been acknowledged & approved?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan However, in our county, Secular people and secular media did not let the state to punish such people who are Blasphemous. Media and secular people start crying loudly when such incident happens. Therefore, people try to resolve the issue by their own. For example: Ex-Goverber Salman Taseer's murder.

Why don't People take law into hands & kill one another like animals in Malaysia, Maldives,Turkey, Indonesia, UAE,Jordan, Kazakhstan etc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kainatkhan You can not give any single example of a person who is hanged because of blasphemy law in Pakistan. Once the Law is very strict then such examples will not be found.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.

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When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

Well I am speechless dear, instead of relying on your state I am preparing and arming myself to defend against you . Your state won't do anything to prevent my murder, all it will do is show up in the end for 'matti pao' and 'muk mukao' so it would be better that I fight for my survival . Your ideas are leading to anarchy dear friend .

BTW poor and uneducated, what about working to remove poverty, or atleast treating poor with respect and dignity . Nahh that seems too tough for your state, they must educate themselves or kill each other if they are poor (jk)

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

I was actually looking for the element of justice in your state, your state didn't show any resolve like it will do everything within its power and take any risks in order to assure justice and fair treatment to its citizens. As head of your state instead of assuring me that you will do everything for my protection, and even then if I am murdered you will punish my murderers at all cost come what may, you went on to claim that you yourself can plan my murder there is nothing like fear of getting arrested and punished which can deter your thoughts, and if you are rich you will simply 'pay off' a murder. You stated that murders and all other vices prohibited by Islam happen because people are poor, crazy and uneducated; it is a childish justification to remove the burden of responsibility from state and shows hatred and discontent towards your state's citizens. So no offense bro . It's not your fault, our whole country is messed up with these kinds of mind boggling solutions of problems .

Nevertheless it remains a fact that murders, adultery and all these things will remain as long as people are there.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

why do i get the feeling that you read what you want to interpret and not that which i have written... my friend have you never heard of assumptions... but oh now you are going to assume that which you will assume that i have assumed... i did say that poverty has to be eradicated so that crazy psychopaths like me won't be created mr. president enjoy tap talking...