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Originally Posted by toqeer raza should PAKISTAN grant MFN nation to India? also share your views regarding importing electricity from India to check power crisis in Pakistan . Plz share your authentic and mature views for interviews.

We should pursue pragmatic path by granting MFN status to India because no matter if it is a white cat or a black cat; as long as it can catch mice, it is a good cat.

i don,t know why most of the Pakistanis are too much concerned about Pak-India relations and why they are giving too much importance to the nation which has not accepted our existence so for. Those who hope or expect anything good from India, are living in paradise,s fool. we should study the history and accept it that Hindus and Muslims never remained good friends. The Hindus always conspired against the Muslims and betrayed them on most of the occasions. so we must think realistically about it.
India can never be a good neighbor and friend of Pakistan. Pakistani leadership must strongly talk to India in the manner and attitude, Indian talk to us. we are not weak and can survive without India.

So, Pakistan should never and never think about India to be its most favorite nation.

I would rather have rational arguments otherwise none.

(1) India has accepted your existence. You have diplomatic relations with India and vice-versa.
(2) The relations between Hindus and Muslims were very cordial to start with. it is not what I have read in books or internet. These are the 1st hand accounts by my grandparents (we had Hindus in our area). These concocted stories of Hindu Muslim feuds and all are a product of our distorted history!
(3) What are the famous conspiracies where Hindus did betray you?
(4) There is no denying the fact that we will survive even without any cordial relations with India but so can a man who jumps from the 5th floor of a skyscraper. But he will be CRIPPLED

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Umar Abbas Babar
I Know I am Bad But When Bad is the Best, Bad is the Only Choice

dear, i don,t want to go into discussion with you, but whatever i have pointed out, is logical and rational for those whose who have a little cognizance of INDO-PAK history. my answers to your comments are as;

everybody knows about the obstacles, the Hindus had put in the way of creation of Pakistan. till last time, they tried their best to fail the establishment of a new Muslim state and when Pakistan was created, what they did with us . they gave us nothing. they killed and looted thousands of Muslims and compel them to leave their state.
secondly , they always used the Muslims for their own interests, for example during khilafat movement they joined hands with Muslim and then suddenly went back ,thus the whole struggle was wasted. if this is not betrayal , then what is the name of betrayal.

thirdly, dear, they want to snatch everything from us. what are they doing with our water, what about border clashes, blame game, and maligning Pakistan as well as image of Islam. how can they be our friends?

dear, my aim is not to hurt anybody, but to show the reality. we should think about what Indian did with us during three wars, dismembered Pakistan and killed thousands of Pakistani soldiers. we can not forget about them.

by MFN status it does not mean that we will forget all the black outs of past but in present scenario it would be a wise approach to take india as MFN..
we have a collapsed economy right now and this could be one of the best opportunities for pakistan. we can get a chance to compete with their products in their markets although the question is that are we in a state to compete with them???
as far as your next question is concerned, it would be a bad approach to import electricity from india. besides we can take over energy crisis by short term implementations..

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i believe in Allah and he is the mere one who can help me...

They compelled thousands of Muslims to leave and looted them: Well brother the same actions were reciprocated this side of the border as well. You also compelled many to leave this country and killed many! Even when 2 brothers are dividing their forefathers lands etc., there seldom are cases with no tu tu may may Yeah, they did make financial troubles for Pakistan during the early days but there we get Gandhi's example (who was a Hindu by the way) who fasted onto death to get Pakistan its share (in order to compel his government to give Pakistan what it owed). He paid it with its price. The point is that as a new state, she needed to ensure that Pakistan does not use the military and money in Kashmir (which was wrong)!

As far as the khilafat movement is concerned, there were several Muslim leaders who raised their voices against the Movement. Jinnah is the prime example of that. Then that means they betrayed Muslims as well? The point is simple that the movement was getting violent for a cause that was thousands of kilometers away from India and therefore Gandhi backed off.

it has been historically proven that War number 1 and War number 2 were started by Pakistan. The border clashes, I mean come on. Who crossed the borders and beheaded their soldier? or kills them? After what you did to Bengalis, you expect them to stay with you and not seek support of India?

The point is don't confuse India with Hindus. India is a secular state (at least it claims to be one) so officially its neutral. You claim to be an Islamic Republic, so definitely you do represent Islam!

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Umar Abbas Babar
I Know I am Bad But When Bad is the Best, Bad is the Only Choice

OK. dear, it is your right to give your opinion and i have the right to contradict you.i respect your comments, you are right, but the reason why i am against the concept of MFN to India, is its arrogant and prideful attitude towards us and our proposals of peaceful talks over all outstanding issues. they are not ready to talk to us on the issues regarding Kashmir, water dispute, blame game and so many other issues of grave nature. how can we approve MFN status to India. just think about it realistically.

Giving MFN status to India for the purpose of benefiting from mutual trade will also be a loss for Pakistan because we are not in a position to develop a strong negative list. We depend on foreign products from eatables to electronics, and automobiles to aeroplanes. Imagine if we give MFN status to India, we will be drived to import all our needful items from India and increasing our dependency on her. If ever a dropfall comes in the mutual relations, Pakistan will face a huge setback, as it will have to adjust its imports (import from anyother country). On the other hand, we do not have enough products (be they industrial or agricultural) that we could export to India and earn huge revenues. First we need to develop our internal market and business, attract FDI and improve law and order situation in order to be a competitive trade partner with somebody else.

At the same time, the reservations of the majority of Pakistanis are correct and they depict the view of Adeel Abdullah as he has written above. Pakistan is suffering huge losses due to Kashmir (remember the floods every year!), our rivers remain dry most of the year and suddenly overflow in the monsoon season; it is not due to monsoon but the opening of wasteful collected water from Indian dams within Kashmir. Our Indus-Basin treaty is being ruined by India and dams are being constructed in Kashmir on the rivers belonging to Pakistan as mentioned in the treaty. Several UN agreements to solve the Kashmir crisis have been burried down by India and now it claims that Kashmir is India's "Attot Ang".

Foreign involvement in our tribal areas and specially Balochistan has severally been proved, whereby passports and other documents of illegal Indians were recovered in these areas by the Pakistani Armed Forces. India has a huge number of consulates on the Pak-Afghan Belt in the Afghanistan side, what is the purpose of such a large number of consulates? Only one consulate per province shouldn't be enough? The Mumbai-Terror case (26/11) also seams to be a drama by India to malign Pakistan and maintain tense relations and keep such an environment in which defusing of tensions for the purpose of continuing dialogue and solving mutual problems / issues remains hanged. India is not co-operating for a fair trial in the said case, our team for cross-examining the prosecution of the case was not allowed to do its task, right. There are so many example to quote from the past and the present, and simply to summarize the Quran cannot be false, which says that the non-muslims can never be your sincere friends, so how can you expect that you will build a trust relationship with them forever and maintain a peaceful co-existence?

If Pakistan is not able to develop a strong negative list then what is the issue here. We are talking about India's products substituting the expensive counterparts. Above all, most of the Indian products are already being smuggled to Pakistan through other avenues. See it is business. In case Indian products are cheaper, others would follow suit to remain in the business. and in case, there are hostilities or any dip in the relations, we can always substitute them.

MFN is not giving India some preference or something it is just removing the negative list that is controlling our trade regime.

look brother, as far as the Indus Basin Treaty is concerned, there are international venues where we could (or could have) challenge India. If the government of Pakistan does not take any notice of this then I believe it is our issue.

As far as your reference to Quran is concerned, yes you are right! but there are two missing things in that: First of all you are assuming that you are a Muslim mentioned in the Quran because he is the one who does amr bil ma'ruf wa nahi anil munkir. Secondly, trading and having cordial relations with a neighbor has never been disapproved

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Umar Abbas Babar
I Know I am Bad But When Bad is the Best, Bad is the Only Choice

Having cordial relations with the neighbours has never been disapproved in Islam, it is true but if the neighbours are like the Meccans who never tolerated the migration of their inhabitants to another homeland Madina to live in peace; and therefore left no opportunity to stage a propaganda against them so as to destroy their nationality and peace then Islam always instructed its followers to be careful in relations with them. Same is the case here, the creation of Pakistan was opposed by the Hindu majority and they never were in favor of a division of their country (the United India); and when it was created they immediately started their propaganda to weaken its roots and remerge it with their own country by attacking Kashmir and taking illegal control of it. The story began with a limited war within the 1st year of creation of Pakistan and continues till now with many ups and downs. At the very right moments now, tensions on the LoC on daily basis are being created by India. It is a matter to ponder that how can Pakistan dare to start a war by initiating attacks and violating the ceasefire on the LoC in Kashmir, when it is too much involved in the deterriorating internal law and order situation. It is only a drama that Pakistan is blamed of initiating the violations of the said ceasefire, actually it is a game of continuing tensions and not letting the situation normalize. The silence of the Pakistani governments in succession about taking practical steps for the solution of Kashmir issue is known to all, yet what could be the reason of tensions on this LoC? It only leads us to the point that they don't want to be in peace.

It does not mean that when they do not want to be in peace, than we should blindly start playing wars. Infact strategy is what we lack to deal with such situations in the long-term. While supporting the stand for MFN, I wonder how people say that there is already too much demand for the Indian products in Pakistan which is being met through illegal trade and smuggling; why do people not talk of stopping this illegal trade and taking steps to allow only legal trade. If we openly accept that we are legalizing the already existing illegal trade, than there will always remain a space for this illegal trade despite we grant the MFN status to India. And when this illegal trade will remain, obviously it will be flooding our markets with less expensive goods than those being imported through the legal trade. This will mean our too much dependency on the Indian products, and remember that in the days of tension India stops trade, calls back her ambassadors and lines her army on the borders. And it is difficult to adjust quickly and meet the exisiting demand through other means, for example imagine one is employed with a particular firm and therefore gets paid by that firm monthly, he depends on that income to meet a greater portion of his needs and expenditures; if immediately without notice the firms expels him from service or does not pay him, he is at loss as it is difficult to find another employment immediately.