B]the concept of Taliban-style "deen" has no place in today's world[/B].

USA and other Nato member were also of the same view 12 years ago and they put in place whatever financial physical technalogical resources they have to eradicate that style. However, After 12 years of war they have realized that they can not impose their misleading and corrupt system in this country.


You people only speak but they (Talibans) act.

one more thingh do not use the kind of terms that general public does not understand. Your irrelevant type of knoweldge does not help you winning any kind of argument.

Whatever other person presents you term it irrelevant and whatever you present is only relevent!

Seculars are hypocrites that killed our 10 million people in two world wars and then reached at the conclusion that religion is the base of all this haterd. They are killing no one but only themselves. look at negative growth rate in eurpoe in Japan. The USA society is also built on looted resources of Saudi Arabi, Middle East.

The initial argument started was that whether islam is a deen or religion . You were even ignorant of this simple fact.
After that argument turns into whether that deen can be established or not. Then you started condemning religions and system that Islam provides to mankind and I am of the view that Taliban just had established the system to a greater degree.

Keep your philosophical language yourself , have a reality check , try to find out the reasons of imbalance in the world . Why Wars are going on in most Islamic countries? Who is usurping resources of others and who is imposing its system? Are we imposing our system on west or west is invading us to impose his system here. The so called liberals could not digest the legitimate government of Muhammad Mursi in Egypt . They are destabilizing the government of Turkey as well .

USA and Nato have been defeated by Mujahideen and thier forces are leaving the country. let the time decide whose system will prevail . yes its true that secularism is prevailing right now but it will never be the same case.

There is too much (empty) rhetoric here so I'd try to break it up into parts to make it a bit coherent.

1. No one here is supporting what USA/NATO did.

2. So if an invader fails to "eradicate" a certain life-style, that life-style is deemed the right one? There are dozens of examples where this happened with non-Islamic life-styles, does this automatically prove them right? I'll pick a simple example: US invasion of Vietnam was a terrible failure. Does this make the Vietnamese life-style the one true life-style? That standard is a very slippery slope.

In proverbial language, this is called 'ignorance is bliss', that is, don't tell people what is true because it makes them very uncomfortable. Unfortunately, the world does not care whether you have knowledge or not.

Of course, if someone goes off the topic, I will point that out. You are free to point out my irrelevance.

This is priceless.

1. Secularists did not incite/fight the two world wars. Misguided/extreme nationalism was the main reason.

2. No one, at the end of the war or thereof, "reached at the conclusion" that religion is evil or any such sort of thing. Making things up might be perfectly valid you but that does won't work.

More sweeping statements, called "hawai fire" in Urdu. Europe and America certainly built their economies on the wealth they looted from the third world during and after colonization but that has little, or nothing, to do with religion. South America is the most severely affected region because of American policies and guess what? It does not have a single Muslim country.

I take it whoever disagrees with your concept/interpretation of "deen" is ignorant? I see.

No I didn't. Condemning Islam and criticizing the medieval interpretations that are unable to work in today's world are two different things.

That's not called establishing a system. That's called barbarism. And I told you the kind of things they did, which you dismissed as a propaganda by Western media. I don't think any argument can work on someone who rejects all criticism calling it propaganda/conspiracy.

Because of the sectarian divides and political Islam, chiefly that. And the strife and wars go back to medieval times. There's nothing new about it. America wasn't around before a couple of centuries ago but Muslims were cutting each others throats much before that.

America is certainly doing that but here's another culprit: Saudia Arabia. Both are the biggest finances of terrorism around the world. Either you should criticize both or neither.

I'll update you on this issue. The USA stopped its military aid after this happened but Saudi Arabia increased its aid and wholeheartedly supported this action of Muhammad Mursi. Oh and Saudia is also angry why the US hasn't invaded Syria to kill more Muslims. I wonder where does "all Muslims are brothers" attitude goes when it comes to Saudi Arabia. Just keep criticizing the "West", which is actually the reason why you are using this internet, to name one little thing.

Clearly you have no idea what secularism is.

Secularism means freedom of choice , As for as my little knowledge goes,
let me ask you a simple question :

What is the ultimate goal of Secularism?


Islam Promises rewards in world hereafter for the hardships and patience in this world for cause of Allah (SWT), it gives a person a goal.

What Secularism promises? no life after death?

I don't know why you are diverting the whole thing to secularism. But just to clarify, secularism does not stop you from practicing your religion. Only you are not allowed to impose it on others. And I don't think the discussion in this thread is about secularism.

No it says nothing of the sort.

And that is perfectly compatible with secularism.

How?
In Islam a muslim has a duty to establish the system of his master which he has been orderd by former whreas in Secularism it is not allowed?

That is a very lengthy discussion and it's useless to get into it. Is this thread about secularism?

Of course that's all we remember about Islam. What about the other, more important teachings of Islam, such as feeding the poor, eradicating poverty, equal distribution of wealth, education etc.etc. Those are more important instructions, how about implementing them before yelling about politics?

Since Secularism and any system other then Islam does not have consolation for a man for his life then it is superior to other systems because most dear thing for a human is his life. No system other they Islam promises eternal life.

As per secularism when man dies then game over? Man has arrived in this world just to pass time? Nope, These type of Question haunt me very much. How can be my life just 60, 70 or say 100 years? I do not want to die and unfortunately or fortunatley any system other then Islam does not gaurantee me eternal life.

All systems have promises of consolation for man and all religions (major ones, at least) have promises of eternal life. That's not a monopoly of Muslims.

Wrong.

Again, wrong.

No this thread is not about secularism it is about system or DEEN.
We take guidelines from the life of Prophet Muhmmand(PBUH) whose fundamental objective was to establish Deen. Once that Deen establishes then other issues e.g eradiction of poverty, and feeding poor, providing quality health care to citizens will be followed. But Prophets Muhmmad(PBUH) objective was establishment of system.

So by Deen you mean the political implementation of Islam? Well, that's another definition among million others.