Thank you for accepting you the fact that you in your "supremely indifferent" mode failed to understand what the sentence tried to convey. Took a long time, but am glad it happened.



Pakistan Army corps commanders in their meeting last week at GHQ expressed anger over statements of certain minister's and told chief General Raheel Sharif that their sentiments may be conveyed to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. Dawn News

http://www.dawn.com/news/1100764

Can you please use a search engine to find those statements? no?


1: http://tune.pk/video/2079381/pervaiz...a-saad-rafique

2: http://uwatching.com/khawaja-asif-ab...3c175985e.html

3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDOHK6sGgCY

4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YPq7vr7cxU

5: http://tribune.com.pk/story/693754/a...-khawaja-asif/

6: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n...q-vs-army_news



I never said Musharraf is not relevant to the current crises. Another glaring example of you failing to understand a simple sentence. It's becoming a norm, is it not?

This is what I actually stated

Imran Khan bieng a pal of Musharraf does not relate to the current crises

Please enlighten me about how Imran Khan being a pal of Musharraf or his current agenda is directed to affect the trial of Musharraf by, errr, providing conclusive proof.
While there were suspicions about Army endorsing Imran Khan, such suspicions never manifested in the form of conclusive proof. Imran Khan has categorically denied it, and reiterated the fact that his march could have been avoided had the government payed heed to his constitutional demands of investigating the electoral rigging.

This weak link you are trying to establish also gets weaker by the fact that neither the government removed Musharraf's name from ECL, nor the Army supported Imran Khan, even though last night was an opportunity made in heavens for it to intervene.

Tell me about yet another conspiracy theory, of how the Army did not intervene because it brokered a deal with the Government according to which Army's non-intervention would be conditional to Mushrarraf bieng given a safe passage. That's all which is left.

I never called "everyone else" a liar. I never asked you to establish a link between Musharraf and the current crises. What I asked, as I explained, was the link between Musharraf and Imran Khan being pals and that affecting the current crises. Of course you failed to provide conclusive proof for that. In fact you failed to understand what I meant in the first place. Or perhaps you understood, but circumvented the main idea and tried to take the discussion on a parallel road, like you always do.

Your inability to grasp simple English is fast becoming legend, old man.


Of course, Musharraf's party would support any move which puts pressure on the government and which opens up a possibility, however bleak, of an Army intervention. They will do what is best for them. It's only natural.





Without much problem. Right.Your solution, peaceful protest, was exactly what they were doing for the last 2 months. didn't work.

It took 10 days of siege, implicit threats to raid the parliament house, pressure from all political parties and orders from High Court which forced the government to lodge an FIR.






Quoting Jang Group when Imran Khan clearly stated it had launched a slanderous campaign against Imran Khan is , well, not really going to help.

Can you please quote other such examples from Express, Dunya or Dawn news, please? I will be delighted to have a look.

Regarding the 70 percent of the cases being rejected, they were all rejected on technical grounds. That was one of the main reasons PTI took to the streets. This is exactly where the Parliament should have stepped in, to devise a solution which would have satisfied the aggrieving parties. Forming a commission was the first step. We all know how long did it take.





Thank you

You opinion. right. I disagree and won't bother to argue, as it is mere opinion.

As I recall with my doubtful ability to grasp things, you were telling me something about the ‘speeches’ of some cabinet ministers. I didn’t find any ‘speeches’ in any of these links. Please keep trying to locate those imaginary speeches. My Google search does not offer imaginary results (perhaps you can teach me that).

Moreover, where is the ‘bold’ content of these ‘speeches’ directed at the military? All I can see is people talking about Musharraf (your babble about the relevance of whom I’ll come to shortly). May be my legendary inability to comprehend things hinders me, but I hope you can see the difference between talk shows and what a minister tells to some anchors (about one guy, while also clarifying that this is nothing about military) and the speeches of the cabinet members targeting military? (any rumors of anything against the military, by the way, the ministers themselves have 'categorically' denied more than once, those liars!)

Let’s set that record straight too. You informed me that by writing “Musharraf’s pal” I had dragged history. To which I clarified that it was not me but you, the truthful guy, who did that. I further mentioned the rumors that “Imran’s circus has been encouraged by the military to seek Musharraf’s exoneration” even though “there is probably not much evidence for that”. You retorted with “There is not much evidence for that. Thank you. I ask you, however, is there any evidence whatsoever? Until you find that, It is not relevant to the current crisis”.

Since you asked me, I gave the evidence (which I already said was not much) about the rumors that “Imran’s circus has been encouraged by the military to seek Musharraf’s exoneration”. And you went back on the old Musharraf-Imran Pal thing because, unfortunately for you, the “bold speeches of cabinet members” that you were to tell me about were also about Musharraf and not military. I was right when I diagnosed short term memory problem here.

I did mention that Imran’s circus was helping Musharraf which I also substantiated with evidence, however meager. Thanks for giving me more evidence with the links that that you thought were 'speeches' of the cabinet ministers. Desperately trying to insert 'conclusive proof' won't help.

It’s all right. To err is human, because guess what? I never talked about conclusive proofs (comprehension problems?). It was you who said there is no evidence ‘whatsoever’ and what did that turn out to be? People would call it a blatant lie but I’ll just say it was a slip of tongue.

Naturally, all you have is ‘conclusive proof’ to cling on, which I never mentioned. Comprehension problems, was it?

Quite possible, but I will not rush into calling it a fact and branding others as liars. The situation will unfold in time. So far it seems that Imran took a decision on his own, for God knows what reasons, against the wishes of his own party’s top brass, even though the negotiations were underway. Why he took this dictatorial decision (to save democracy; the irony!) can only be known in the coming days.

You did, and in a pretty clear language (which you manage once in a while), too bad for you. But of course, it was I who failed to comprehend the whole thing with my “legendary” abilities.

You mean they are liars? Well, I understand. Here you go:

“The committee was told that over 400 petitions had been filed with the election tribunals out of which 76 per cent had so far been disposed of.”

http://www.dawn.com/news/1128077/ecp...f-fresh-census

And more:

“the PTI filed 58 petitions challenging the national and provincial assemblies’ seats, out of which 39 petitions (70 percent) have already been decided by the tribunals, in which not a single petition by PTI candidates could successfully substantiate the allegations of rigging. The remaining 19 petitions by the PTI are still pending”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/opinion...and-imran-khan

And it has also happened in certain cases when the PTI petitioner, instead of appearing before the tribunal on the appointed date, preferred business trips abroad. But of course who’s to blame? The government.

As to your ‘technical grounds’ thingy, you overlooked “not a single petition by PTI candidates could successfully substantiate the allegations of rigging”. And it must also be the “technical grounds” that caused the re-counting (technical? right) and loss of seats by several candidates (including, here’s the funny bit, PTI candidates)? Basically, 10 elected candidates of PML-N faced this fate at the hands of the election tribunal:

“The author stated that 10 elected parliamentarians of the PML-N have been unseated by the ETs. This is the highest number of decisions against any political party.”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/nationa...far-from-facts

Interestingly, “Judgments in only two petitions have gone against PTI candidates. Independent candidates are the biggest winners thus far with eight cases in their favour, followed by the PPP at six.” Who suffered the most? The ruling party. Who to blame? The ruling party. Priceless.

By the way, DAWN seems even more anti-PTI then Jung, taking the number to 400. I hope you are delighted? Always glad to give happiness.

It’s also very amusing that Imran thinks government’s involvement with elections is a sin (about which he fails to present any evidence) but it’s perfectly all right to accuse the government about what the election tribunals have been doing (which is a lot and effecting PML-N the most). I don’t call him clown for nothing, see?

Your ability to ignore facts surpasses even my "legendary" lack of comprehension. With whatever ability of comprehension I can manage, I’ll state them. The parliament did step in (even though election tribunals are independent but you cannot reason with Imran) and offered to form a commission before the march even started. What reason was there to continue? Of course, resignation of the PM and anarchy.

By the way, here's something from your own link:

"In the last couple of weeks some misunderstanding cropped up based on my speeches delivered many years ago which were made in a different context and in a different environment." http://www.dawn.com/news/1100764

So there are no such speeches from the current tenure of PML-N? Young man, make up your mind whether the 'speeches' were recent or about a decade old because, well, comprehension problems can arise.

shame on PTI and everyone supporting these ENEMIES OF OUR COUNTRY
for God's sake be sensible at least after hashmi's conference.

Speech defined: The act of delivering spoken communication to an audience

Now let me reproduce everything with explanation so that your brain, which is most probably on rent at the moment, can process things more easily.

Link 1: Khwaja Saad Rafique calls Musharraf a Coward.

http://tune.pk/video/2079381/pervaiz...a-saad-rafique

Of course, claiming a retired Military General was a coward did not go well into some Military circles.

Link 2: Khwaja Asif denouncing Musharraf implicitly and explicitly.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1j...news?start=119

As I said, Army was not pleased yet again.

Link 3: Chaudhry Nisar makes the tumultuous relationship between the Army and the Government public

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDOHK6sGgCY

Of course, Interior Minister making such statement is uncalled-for.

Link 4: Ahsan Iqbal claims Musharraf treason case is not, in any way, related to the Army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YPq7vr7cxU

The Army, though, was not too happy to see its former General being labelled as traitor, and then the government unilaterally deciding that it was not related to the Army.

Link 5: Khwaja Asif Questions the bravery of Musharraf

http://tribune.com.pk/story/693754/a...-khawaja-asif/

Army, yet again, perturbed.


Link 6: Khwaja Asif claims on the floor of National Assembly that it (NA) is the supreme institution is Pakistan, and thus can criticize the anyone and everyone (that clearly includes Army too) if it wants. The comment is a direct response to a concern shown by Corps Commander meeting.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n...q-vs-army_news


The statements are bold due the fact that Civilian Government has never been able to criticize the role of Armed Forces in this country. Plain and simple.


Now here is what I said earlier.

Speeches of the members of the Cabinet, in particular Khwaja Asif, in chronological order seemed to be getting bolder despite the fact that Army had kept a safe distance from the parliament in the last 6 years.

The aforementioned links justify that.
But then again, I am arguing with someone who failed to understand simple English time and again.

Of course your Google search never produced those results. You are too old to be using Google old man, it needs a bit of a brain to get where one wants to get on Google too. Brain,though, is in short supply at your side. Or perhaps the problem lies with eye sight. What happened to your typewriter?






Yeah, right. Go back and start reading from where the conversation began, and turn off the "supreme indifference mode". Moving around in circles would take you no where.

My simple argument was that Nawaz, for the shameless charlatan he is, turned to the very same Army for help, which he tried to malign, when cornered, even though Army stayed away from politics in the past 6 years.

Where does Imran Khan being a pal of Musharraf fits in?
If there is not much evidence to put forward your Musharraf-Imran nexus claim, stop giving it as an example. For if you go by this notion, you will have to accommodate PTI's demands of the PM resigning due to massive electoral fraud, of which, according to you, there is not much evidence either.






If you come out of disneyland, you will realize that I never claimed you talked about "conclusive proof"

It was I who asked for conclusive proof of Imran Being Musharraf's pal and it's effect on the current crises.

Yes. Comprehension problem. Sort them out.









Here you are. Well done. Back to what you do best. Lie.
I reiterate, I never asked you to form a link between Musharraf and the current crises. I asked how Imran Khan and Musharraf being pals relates to the current crises.

Please reproduce my statement here if there is any. Mister, well, Liar.

You, as I said, took the discussion to a parallel road. the original discussion was plain and simple. But that's for the general and normal public.


I would have explained the "technical ground" problem, which mainly relates to ink and thumb verification, but going by your recent history, you might need to refer to an English teacher first, and a political Science teacher later, to comprehend. Leave that. Or you can practice a bit using Google. Try if it gives you the search results regarding technical ground problem.

So forget that. Let me put it in the layman's language.

If 60-70 thousand votes are unverifiable in every constituency, how can the tribunal rule out in favor of any particular candidate?

Simple question which the tribunal has not yet answered. You can make up a tom dick and harry story about it, for sure. But the Tirbunal has failed to answer this simple question.


Now since you provided some links regarding discrediting the claim that elections were rigged, let me provide a few which assert otherwise


1:The Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) has no record of ballot papers of 139 constituencies, even though more than a year has passed since the National Elections.

Yeah, you read that right. Majority of the candidiates in these 139 constituencies are, not surprisingly, from PML-N, including Nawaz Shareef, shahbaz Shareef, Abid Sher ali and Khwaja saad rafique.

http://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/14-May-...constituencies


2: Fafen, an independent NGO, alleges over 71,000 irregularities in 2013 polls

http://www.dawn.com/news/1105425

3: Dr Shahid Masood discloses the rigging, based on the facts provided by an independent committee

http://www.unewstv.com/14705/fafen-e...ling-the-story

4: Rauf Klasra on rigging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3SGTeOjfAQ

5: Rauf Klasra once again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jm2tYuhTcA

6: Justice Fakhuridin admits he resigned because of pressure from Iftikhar Chaudary over election inquiry

http://www.awaztoday.tv/News-Talk-Sh...-Chaudhry.aspx

Some other developments for your viewing pleasure

7: NADRA chief dismissed by Prime Minister after he claimed NADRA has the infrastructure to ensure thumb verification in the elections, and hence, any rigging.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/640871/g...en-reinstated/

8: NADRA chief gets reinstated by the high court, but resigns because of receiving threats for himself and his family. Vote verification issue the main cause.


http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pak...-Malik-resigns

9: Imran Khan Rigging Allegations prove true :-NA- 68 Sargodha Election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wgK2SxE2fc

The only thing priceless here is your deductive reasoning. If PML-N has the highest number of people who were un-seated, what does that prove. Think. A bit more. almost there. Bingo. It was the ruling party who was involved in rigging more than any other party. Plain and simple.


Both your personal opinions. I won't comment, as you will take the debate on a whole new planet once again. Glad to know what you think.

This is the last time I am explaining what I am posting. If you cant grasp simple English and can't use deductive reasoning, I can not argue with you any further. Thank you.



DAWN

Updated Apr 18, 2014 10:46pm

Khawaja Asif takes U-turn, calls Pakistan Army an asset



ISLAMABAD: Calling his past statements on the Pakistan Army a mistake, Defence Minister Khawaja Asif in a statement said that a strong and respected army is a national asset.

“In the last couple of weeks some misunderstanding cropped up based on my speeches delivered many years ago which were made in a different context and in a different environment,” said Asif in a statement issued on Friday in Islamabad.

“It was neither my intention and nor my objective to undermine an institution, which I hold in high esteem, at a time when the armed forces are fighting on many fronts,” the defence minister insisted.

“As a Pakistani I am proud of the valour and sacrifices of the men in uniform for the defence of the nation. It was not my objective to undermine it,” he said.

The defence minister admitted that his statements presented by the media created a misplaced perception about himself which he said was far from reality.

Pakistan Army corps commanders in their meeting "last week" at GHQ expressed anger over statements of certain minister's and told chief General Raheel Sharif that their sentiments may be conveyed to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.



The Article is dated 18th of April. It mentions Corps Commander meeting took place last week, which would be either 12th or 13th of April. The Generals expressed anger over what can only be contemporary speeches made by Khwaja Asif. Refer to the links I provided earlier.

Khwaja Asif, however, tries to manipulate public opinion by claiming his earlier (more then a year, according to him) speeches are the bone of contention. In fact, a diatribe against Pervez Musharraf on a private Channel earlier that week is what the fuss was about.

If you would have read it properly, or would have sought guidance from someone who can understand simple English, you won't have been asking the question.


I, however, wanted to prove that Ministers were making bold statements which were not so well received by Army. The Corps Commander meeting over the issue proves the point.

I’ll repeat once again, since I have to say the same thing again and again to make you ‘comprehended’ it, these are all statements against Musharraf, with categorical assertion that nothing is directed against military. Against Musharraf? Sure. Against military? None.

How is this ‘bold speech’ against military, clarify please. Or just admit that you were pretty shamefully lying when you said ‘bold speeches’ against military were made, instead of making it an embarrassment for yourself. If anything, Nawaz government has been pretty lenient toward the military and did not even drag the ISI chief in the parliament which the previous government did.

Oh right, people who had/have been severely criticizing Zia (Benazir Bhutto, for instance?) were only joking, right? And you are yet to tell me who in the current cabinet criticized the role of the Armed Forces instead of giving me links upon links of Musharraf case. Pretty simple, no?

No, they do not. None of the links tells about anyone saying anything against the military. You can get away with it by insisting that I don’t understand simple English for all you like.

Thank you for giving so much of your time thinking about my life. Guess what? It’s a matter of, you guessed it, supreme indifference to me.

I see. Your skills in splitting hair are truly remarkable. But here’s the thing: I never tried to fit in Musharraf-Imran friendship in the current crisis. I only mentioned that Imran was Musharraf’s pal and that is it. Full stop. And you assumed that I was thinking this friendship had some mysterious link with the current crisis. Should I give you my glasses so you can comprehend things better? Can you show me where I said Musharraf-Imran friendship is related to this crisis? I’ll oblige you with the evidence later on. Not only very truthful, you also like to jump to absurd conclusions. I see.

Having said that, what I actually did say was related to the current crisis is the benefit that Musharraf will derive for his exoneration, and thus the man is very much relevant to the crisis (not his 'friendship' with Imran). For that I presented the evidence to whatever extent, even though you very ‘truthfully’ said that no evidence ‘whatsoever’ exists.

Sure, you asked for it. And I said don’t run to ‘conclusive proof’ from ‘no evidence whatsoever’. Simple. Try to comprehend that and exercise the poor thing between your shoulders. It helps once in a while.

It’s very nice that you’ve distinguished between the two things because I would’ve considered it an extraneous detail. Here’s the thing: Show me where I said Musharraf-Imran friendship is related to the current crisis.

Thank you for the suggestion, young man. I’ll note that down. Judging from the grammatical errors (in addition to truly remarkable comprehension skills) you have been making all along and your failing grip on facts, I think someone else is in dire need of the same.

If memory serves, we were talking about the investigation of rigging and judicial commission, and not the rigging itself. Someone mentioned running on ‘parallel roads’. Let’s talk a bit about that.

How did we come to know that this rigging happened? Because of the investigation that is underway, right? Scoring a goal against your own team? Only a muddle-headed player does what you have been doing all along, young man.

In fact, all the links and I repeat, all the links that you have provided here tell about the rigging in the elections (which I never denied, truly I’m not lying, it is someone else who is clumping all the lies on me) and actually reinforcing my opinion (more like, fact, this one) that investigation is going on. And then you’ll rush and accuse me of going on ‘parallel roads’. How impulsive our youth is (guess if this one’s an opinion or a fact in your spare time).

But just to clarify, FAFEN (your sole independent source) issued an apology because the original claim was based on wrong information. As a matter of fact, FEFEN retracted its statement only two days after elections because of the following reason:

“Inaccuracies in FAFEN’s data might have been due to human errors by volunteer citizen observers in transcribing numbers by hand from Statements of the Count late at night on Election Day. The errors also could be due to changes in the polling station numbers as listed in the polling schemes, which changes the number of registered voters at each station used as the basis for the calculation. ”

For your pleasure, the complete press release: http://www.fafen.org/site/v6/press-r...013_05_14_1281

I’ll spare the rest of the links because that would, well, start a parallel discussion and I’ll have to bear all the blame for that too.

Any link that says that inquiries are not underway? Just for my reading pleasure, please? Your googling skills are starting to disappoint me, young man.

What does that tell about investigation? Is it going on or not?

I still have serious doubts about you though, even though I’m supremely indifferent to what you think, young man.

I just saw Imran khan's good night, sweet dreams wishes to his worn-out followers. Despite the losses of life and injuries happened, again the captain is busy in telling his self admired stories of wining the world cup, building donation hospital and many other services. Again, the same song and dance show-off!. The blindly following, senseless workers have laid their lives for his foolish adventure and he has gone to sleep.....!. How could he sleep.. how could he?!.

یہ انقلاب کیا ہوتا ہے اماں !!!
جب بڑے لوگ بور ہو جاتے ہیں تو وہ غریبوں کا شکار کر کے بوریت دور کرتے ہیں پھر اس کی بعد جو لے
دے ہوتا ہے وہ انقلاب ہے
.
تو ہمیں کیا ملے گا اماں ؟ غریب انقلاب میں سے کچ لیتا نہیں صرف دیتا ہے اور جو دیتا ہے وہ اس کی جان ہے

.....
تو زیادہ نہ سوچا کر ...... زیادہ سوچا تو انقلاب نہ رک جاے کہیں !!!
بانو قدسیہ
________________

__________________
When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

Commendable post Invincible.





Today, its 19th Day of self glorified "Revolution" and I wonder few final nails in the coffin of this movement are remaining. SSP and DIG Islamababd are injured, Pak Secretariat and Pakistan Television Vision PTV, the very face of Pakistan have been besieged. IK is a lone man now, trying to put up a confident face outwardly, though totally shattered inwardly.

Remember, the very first post with which this thread was started was: Azadi march to join Inqalab march: Prospects for PTI. Now this statement seems very relevant. I have that fear factor in my mind when IK joined hand with PAT. I must appreciate Javed hashmi who parted his ways with PTI and mind you he has a narrow but lucky escape. Now IK will be remembered in history of Pakistan politics for storming Pak Secretariat and Pakistan Television Vision (PTV) as Nawaz Leaque once did in 1990s. Govt should not be too worried now because what this Inqalab has done a blow to itself what sheepish govt could not do. I woun't be surprized if leadership is arrested in next 24 hours.

RIP Naya Pakistan and Revolution