Hmmm well yeah that is possible in near future, but not yet.


Yes of-course we cannot compare Pakistani and American conservatives . They are 'conserving' a different culture. In some ways liberals are also conservative, e.g. about environment . The thing is at present these religious thoughts exist and they are not going away quickly. Even Obama, it seems, often bows down before Bush's legacy. Therefore there is a probability that they will do something about Jesus return . Even if they don't, Muslims believe so this is the time (perhaps they always believed so, but even today many are, I won't be surprised if some Muslim government policies are 'guided by this belief'). Some are already speculating that our Khalifa Abu Bakar Baghdadi is the prophesized Sufyani .


And liberals completely dominating Europe is a recent happening. Notice ever since that domination has cemented, grip of the United States has grown over Europe, it's even recording telephones of German Chancellor .





I think I did point out the cultural aspects of the threat, religions being present in immigrants and likely clashes etc. They can handle Christians but Muslims would be a hard nut to crack .





That’s only social side of the change. Muslim economies and politics are still retarded and Muslim states are crumbling so rapidly that it will take a long time to 'heal' . But yeah definitely Muslims are going to change. Western influence might continue to provide guidelines for state building in the middle east, but as of yet most ordinary Muslims are 'suspicious' of the west, mostly on religious grounds. Now a chaotic middle east is where I think the interesting point lies, this is where Jewish-Christian-Islamic world views regarding end times converge. Now obviously Christians don't rule west nor the US, but they are there and possess some level of influence over western governments, notably the US government, the one which 'really matters'. Theoretically it means there is some level of Christian influence in reshaping the geo-political future of the Middle East, and this influence causes violence because not only these religions have remained hostile to each other, they want violence in the middle east in order to get Jesus back . And then Jewish influence in that process is also there. Muslims have believed since centuries that we are near end time. It appears that the religious strife in the Middle East is likely to continue for a while until the prophecies really come true and all Messiahs return or these religions cease to exist due to liberal push. And this religious strife is bound to cast it's shadow over Pakistan .

Well...Thanks for your recommendation to the forum.

Knowing that serious topic are seldom replied here in discussion...Always a topic which is already under discussion in whole world and Media is discussed here which is of no use because every body already get to the point that the controversy will remain a controversy...There is no end point to it...

In my very first Post regarding Pathans I used the word "Orthodox Pathan"...
I reiterated every time nothing personal or some thing ethnically is going on here.
This is being "Partial Social Partial Political topic", So...The second of my Posts regarding Pathans was a Real life Example...I did n't gave any comment on it...
I always see my post dozens of time to make sure it does not contain any thing against Religion,Social Norms, any abusive term regarding any one, any thing etc...I was never been abusive since I joined the forum and never participated actively because I joined the forum when I was quite "under age for CSS" I did n't even used the term "Stupid" for any one...
Being a Social cum political issue...I dragged some of "Women Psychology" and "Trends" which are seen in the normal life like Hijab, What happens to our Educated women? What is mostly the aim of women to get educated?

And I always maintain a good tone to avoid the feeling of Insult some body because here in discussion, there is a trend "Eent ka Jawab Pathar se" and due to this very factor my posts may seem a sort of "Non-Serious" behaviour.. Because the second you get it serious you start receiving "Direct Abuses"...and Reputations like "Anti-Army, Anti-Pakistan" and no body tries to wait for a while and think for a second, despite of bringing evidences, they bring their "Hatred" "Nationalism" "Racism" Patriotism" and then every thing gets "Emotional" here.

And some people are here just "They Don't Like Any one for some indefinite reason" and taking a a Wild Stance...It seems like whole World is Colluding against their "Highly Recognized" cultural values...

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

from cease to exist I don't mean like mass conversion of all Muslims, Jews and Christian to some form of paganism . These religions' political influence cease to exist. Christianity's political influence is already very low and about to face extinction . Judaism political influence it seems is mixed with whole culture as Jewish identity is much more complex. However Islam is still holding considerable political influence and many Muslims around the world often tend to place their Islamic identity above their cultural and regional identity. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why despite so much opposition to salafist violence happening in many places, Muslims are silent or doing nothing about it to the anxiety of liberals.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Political influence of 3 Abrahamic religions is never going to cease. With every single push of liberalism, the religious opposition become more pronounced. Pope's role has subsided because people don't bother to attend churches but the orthodox roots sprout again some where. With each liberal division of every religion, the other wing get's more intensified in it's thoughts and actions. This will carry on until the final fight. Finally, religion has to take over despite of all approaches of liberals because whatsoever it is. Religion has got a definite set of ideologies.On contrary to it,being an indefinite base in liberalism every thing gets vague at a particular extent. You can dissuade words to be expelled from mouth but can't stop the beating hearts and in the cores of their hearts somewhere every Muslim has moved with the salafist violence even if they are non-salafist.

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

I won’t be so sure about that because of one reason, we are living in an age of end of politics and it seems ideologies are no longer sought in most of the world. This is an age of building economies and pursuing dreams. Nevertheless I would claim I am not sure and not hold an absolute belief . My absolute belief lies in Allah and Holy Prophet (SAW) has himself told to look for signs and seek truth to strengthen your belief, whereas majority of people tend to follow the flock .

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

The time you are strengthening your belief, you are actually falling back again towards your ideology. Looking for signs means your are getting a logic for all your ideologies which you previously followed just blindly or for attaining some inner satiety or for any other reason.Singularity is a term on which finally all physicist of the world are agreeing. Seeking one force which is actually controlling the whole universe.It will explain all the theories of mankind from God to Big Bang and Big Bang to again packing up of whole universe towards the same basic unity of mass and energy and then you will be actually strengthening your ideology of "Creation from one Force i.e Allah" and Creation of Universe with it's trigger with in 6 days...And the day of judgement..
Biologist on the other hand are tending to attain a singular cell which would suffice us in all our malignancies and ailments, implant that cell and you will get cured...So, with each highly sign and truth you are actually going to attain satisfaction of your ideology..

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

Wrong, the influence of all major religions has declined significantly in the last 50 years. In the Western world especially more and more people are drifting away from religion and religious opposition has weakened. When we talk of these things we must look at a longer time scale (50 years+); short-term data never shows the true picture because there are often times when there is short-term reversal in the overall trend (or even when the trend picks up speed).

And what is the basis of this assumption?

I find it odd that you see this as religion's strength when in reality, religion's static nature is its biggest weakness. Anything that doesn't change in response to the changing world is doomed by its very nature.

Exactly! In fact the "conservatives" of the United States were the orignal proponents of liberalism in the United States.

Haha yes some idiots in the US may well want to prepare for his return, but I doubt most Americans in power really believe the story enough for them to actually prepare for it BTW American religious identity is really complicated, most still identify themselves as Christian, but if Jesus were to return tomorrow probably less than 5% of Americans would want to physically support him. Lets face it, the preaching of the New Testament are barbaric (the Old Testament is beyond barbaric); would Americans really want to follow a bronze age system?

I was thinking about this a couple days back and I agree with you, some nations' actions do seem to be guided by these things. Especially the Arabs, sometimes I feel as if they really believe that there will be a big war and they will take over the world lol :P

Hmm, that's true, but at the same time European cultural influence on the United States is on the rise


.

Personally I think the social side is the most important. For example, on the surface, the question of whether jeans are allowed doesn't seem to be important, but it is because it has its basis in a deep-rooted obsession with female dressing and that obsession has its roots in outdated and misogynistic religious interpretation that affects nearly every part of a Muslim woman's life

Agreed! Another thing is that while Christian influence in Europe and the US is decreasing, there is no such decrease in fanatic Jewish influence in Israel. In fact it seems that in the short-term at least, the influence of Jewish fanatics will actually increase. Personally, I think that the two-state solution is now a lost cause, it will never happen. The next best thing would be to assimilate Palestinians into the state of Israel, but that too is impossible without the full secularization of Israel, something which seems unlikely in the next 20 years at least.

For first objection. Western world was never centre of any major religion in the past right? Do you see a sense of leader ship in terms of religion in the west or not? Increasing Muslim populace and their conflict with their counters on daily basis. When people want to oppose Islam three things happen...1. They evaluate their own religion and fell a prey to Islam. 2. They become more staunch in their own religion 3. They become more liberal. 1st thing is happening fast and you will see western Muslims with beards and girls with Abayas are increasing in number then even East. West is dictating now against cultures and religious values of others especially East a thing again making their values favourite in their own eyes.

The second statement as Kashif quoted the Religious verdict of observing the signs etc so me too used the sermons explaining the last times and every body knows Holy Prophet PBUH had delivered a Sermon in which he had given a detailed account on what will happen after him.
However, as the religious tension is increasing each and every one have to decide his side finally either liberal or religious. If you are liberal it does not mean you will not go for picking any one's side.

3rd..Religions were never static..You know with time Judaism,Christianity and Islam has changed. Bible is altered for 100 times according to the needs and still the definitions are changing. Basics are static just but definition of politics, jurisprudence and each and every thing has changed and is changing.In Islamic Law "Syassah Shariah" is a term in which Jurist allows the Ruler of that time to decide according to the modern times with in the boundaries of religion. Unfortunately, we haven't got any such leader or even Jurists to explain all this...And it's our ineptness not of religion's...
You are a Muslim and me too..At least we are supposed to read Holy Quran with understanding and Sahah-e-Sattah to get acquainted with our religion to act upon it's teachings...None of us did...How we are supposed to bring a change in the religion when we don't want to know what our religion is????

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

obviously, religious influence help shape the national interest of the jewish state in the middle east . They can't maintain a highly secular environment there like in Western Europe . But jews are very complicated people. They don't hold a single identify. Sometimes they tend to believe they're a culture, sometimes a race, and sometimes a religion. Nevertheless a state in the middle east will definitely have higher levels of religious influence compared to states in Europe . middle east is a tough terrain .

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.