Why Muslim Condemn Charlie Hebdo Killing while they Publish our Prophet Cartoon - Page 2

mysterious me · #11 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsified

These "ulemas" sitting in the council, do you know about Islam more than the likes of Imam Abu Hanifa and the founders of Beobandi and Brevali sects too? Because, these latter guys agree that blasphemy is certainly a pardonable sin. Do enlighten me please.

If the latter group has said that its pardonable then there is no space left for anymore discussion over it. Please give the authentic references of their statements so that we both can be on same page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsified

Kindly quote the source too while you make sweeping statements. Thanks.

i already told you the source of my belief is council of islamic ulemas. Since i dont consider my self an authority over religion. The words you quoted and declared sweeping statement are actually my frank admsission of a literature i read somewhere. which is open to discussion.

Gypsified · #12 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

1. http://www.dawn.com/news/1149558

2. http://www.dawn.com/news/1154856/the...hemy-narrative

Owais766 · #13 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

ok we should condemn the all type of terrorist activity such like Charlie Hebdo but please seniour guide me you are all saying as a muslim we should condemn this all terroris. and we show mercy on them. we should also participate in million march in france, germeny. palestine and turkey leader should also participate in their million march. but should we also not do a million march against the cartoons publishing. should we also not show them that we love our Prophet. or should we remain silent on their freedom of speech. my foot freedom of speech. Charlie Hebdo again publishing cartoon in their upcoming edition. ohhh its freedom of speech we should remain silent. we are weaker and armless. we have no army not atomic power. and we also not have world best ISI intelligence agency. but all the muslim should should unite and show them that our heart beat with our Holy prophet(S.A.W).

Buddha · #14 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

Council of Islamic Ideology also endorses child marriage!

Artemis · #15 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddha

Council of Islamic Ideology also endorses child marriage!

Ulmah in CII are political appointees- their only obsession is marriage

and their only agenda is minimizing space for women in Pakistan.

Islam in Pakistan would be better off without CII, but then like all others they do not want to lose their job so they will claim they are indispensable for Pakistan as well as Islam.

Instead of CII they can take a name like Anti-women Council of Pakistan, Inhumane Council of Pak, Ignorant Council of Pak. But the thing is, religion is the most lucrative business in Pakistan, if they get the Islamic name removed no one would buy the rubbish they sell anymore.

In Pak it is as simple as it gets - whatever you have brand it as Islam and no one would dare challenge you.

osamauaf · #16 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

The debate in this thread is going to be a battle between so called broad minded people and labeled extremists. @Artemis & @Gypsified what do you suggest the punishment of Blasphemy? Forgive them? Why did't you uttered about those were hanged in Pakistan after 16 December Peshawar incident? I mean Forgive them and also forgive Tony Blair and Jeorge Bush. But why Hitler can not be forgiven then ? Coming back to the topic if freedom of expression is allowed and as you said there is no enforcement in Islam then let me quote an incident. (my words are not the same of hadith but i will explain the mafhoom) once a man convicted blasphemy in front Hazrat Ali R.A. Hazrat Ali R.A was very much near to kill him when spitted on Hazrat Ali R.A. and Hazrat R.A forgave him on inquiring he told if i had killed that man my revenge would also have involved in that act.
Conclusion: Blasphemist should be killed and that's his only punishment. Because Hazrat Ali R.A would have kill him surely if did't spitted on him. And we people are not wise than Hazrat Ali R.A.
Now if you are so much broad minded that you call this act as a crime then i can say anything more. Phir tu tumhara khuda hi Hafiz ha.

mysterious me · #17 Tuesday, January 13, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsified

1. http://www.dawn.com/news/1149558

2. http://www.dawn.com/news/1154856/the...hemy-narrative

Thanks for sharing this valuable information. Now i know that asia bibi and junaid jamshed and all those who ask for pardon must be forgiven. Moreover the fatwas also use term of dhimmis which mean, the blasphemy law is applicable to people who are under our jurisdiction quite interesting because you see france is not our jurisdiction, infact the attackers were the minority living there. I am agreed till here

but, the links you shared clearly state that repititive blasphemy with aim of doing it again can not be spared.

Following are the excerpts from the link you provided.

"This contains a fatwa (see below) that clearly states that a non-Muslim blasphemer cannot be killed unless he/she is habitual in the offense."

"Hundreds of leading ulema of their time from South Asia have declared that non-Muslims cannot be killed for a single offense for blasphemy and their pardon is acceptable unless it becomes a habitual and high frequency offense."
no one asked for the pardon and this newspaper is habitual of committing this offence frequently

‘blasphemers who ask for a pardon would be spared the death penalty’ has already been established by the founder of the Hanafi school of thought, Abu Hanifa.
who asked for pardon here,

I contemplate since charlie hebdo does not come under jurisdiction of islamic law through any means so we can not punish them anyway. But there is no denying the fact that they have committed an unpardonable offence more so when they plan to do it again.

pureapak · #18 Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Muslims should condemn the killings, and its good that they are...
BECAUSE;

Islam thrives on peace not on violence.

On the other hand the freedom of speech should have some regulations on at least moral grounds as nothing on the earth goes unchecked and goes well.
It'd surely aggrieve you when some freak shouts offensive words at your family, walks on your clean carpet with dirty shoes, or roams around naked and does a lot of weird things in the name of FREEDOM.
Prophet of Islam is the most respected sacred figure for the Muslim sentiments, If the Magazine wanted to tweet something about him, it shouldn't have been in the form of caricatures. Was that a test for the doctrine of freedom to pass ????? !!! or a filthy conspiracy ? (as it fans the hatred for Islam in the Europe, Thousand demonstrators filled the streets and had a wrong experience with ISLAM; as they think it is Islam that launched the terrorists in their land)

Not at least a moral and ethical law endorse this crap as FREEDOM of Speech so the supporters in addition to protesting against the bloody incident should also condemn the outrageous mockery at human sentiments. Because Reason and Emotion are the virtues that should be dealt with intense care. With this balanced attitude the terrorist activities of this type can be prevented form reoccurring in the future.

real truth · #19 Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Yes. That's the point here.

Allah made it clear in Quran that there is no compulsion in religion.

There is an active debate on blasphemy laws in Pakistan, blasphemy is not justified but killing the accused has no solid roots from Islamic traditions. That is the reason there are so many Muslim countries in the world but blasphemy is punishable to death by only 3 to 4 including Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Prophet (SAW) had forgiven many blasphemers as per his tradition. If the Muslim generation today is looking for reasons to kill others, that does not make it Islamic.

The very beliefs of other religions is blasphemy as per our belief, so should we kill them all? If all the Christians believe in our teachings shouldn't they have all embraced Islam. They denied Prophet (SAW) and his message during his life time that was why they were non-Muslims but Prophet (SAW) didn't take away there right to live. What is religious freedom then if you have to kill everyone who states otherwise?

The grievance of Muslims around the world is understandable but killing is not the answer, at least not as per Islam. This attitude of fanatics makes blasphemers so famous and blasphemy that lucrative. They make a stupid cartoon or a film, why do you people even watch it, but Nayyyy you give it unnecessary attention and undeserved importance. And then everyone is talking about it. This attitude enables blasphemy.

If you have to kill, then kill, but do not try to justify it by your love for religion, a religion that barbaric is at least not Islam. People are made to believe things in name of Islam while those things have nothing to do with Islam. You make a classic case in this regard.

kamal ha, wo hamary nabi ki gustakhi karain aur kamoosh rahin, phir ummati to na howy na ham, un begairaton ka no khana k tum apny mazhab par to raho lakin is tara sy muslmano ki dil azaari to na karo, jab islaam ki hakoomat hoti ha wo doosron ky mazhab ko kahtm nai karta lakin un ko shrartoon ki b ijaazat nai data.

Gypsified · #20 Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Quote:

I contemplate since charlie hebdo does not come under jurisdiction of islamic law through any means so we can not punish them anyway. But there is no denying the fact that they have committed an unpardonable offence more so when they plan to do it again.

Right. It's their country and demanding them to conform to our laws does not make any sense. We can write whatever we like against holocaust in our country without any Jews coming here and killing us. Because freedom of speech is different for different societies.

The way the two brothers dealt with the editors of Charlie Habdo has actually made things worse for Muslims in Europe which is already seeing a wave of anti-Muslim sentiment and anti-Islam rallies are becoming a norm. This incident will give them more strength.

Further, they wanted to punish the people who disrespected Prophet (PBUH). And what was the result? The record sale of the new issues of Charlie Hebdo, in addition to printing of the cartoons by many other news outlets including such respected papers as The Guardian. Their action basically resulted in a lot more disrespect, at the same time making the lives of Muslim difficult in Europe and beyond. I wonder how much "sawab" will this give them.

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