@French: yes this is reality that Pakistan has been and is countinue to be a playground for secular and religious parites backed by Islamist on the one hand and westerns on the other. Our so called bretheren counrties, indeed, played a greater role in our destabilization. in the aftermath of 1979, Iran revolution, Tehrik-i-Nifaz-i-Fiqa-e-Jafria became active in Pakistan, to counter this Saudis Backed Sipah-e-Sahaba and brought in madressah culture, resultantly militancy and sectarianism.

However, Shootingstar is right, the religion is not negative or positive by itself. it is its usage by us. unfortunately we, in pakistan, have always used religion to harness our own political and individual gains.

@ Usam, very right: Juda ho deen siasat se to reh jati hy changezi: However reading Iqbal's "the reconstruction of religious thought" reveals that how he visionized the role and character of MNAs. the character he says for the legislatures is not less then Khulafa-e-Rashidin. Do you think this type of pople are sitting, with exception to some, in the parliament.

@ French: Islamic does support democracy but its democaracy is entirely different than the western one. for islamic democracy you don't need to overhaul the system. you need to provide the sovereignty belongs to Allah and nothing would be done against islam in the state; that's it. Moreover, Sadia is right, the quoted verse proves politics in Islam. You should know that Hazrat Abu Bakar was elected by Majlis-i-Khas. Hazrat Usam was elected by common people; yes common people. there were two tiers of majalis-i-shura; Khas and Aam. after getting equal votes in both of the shuras, Hazrat Usman had to contest the election. the election was held on one man one vote procedure. For details see Human Rights in Islam by Dr Tahir ul Qadri So So Islam does have a political and dmocratic system.

@ Sadia and Frech: very good point of election or selection: Dears both are workable in case of pakistan. selction can be seen in the way election commission secrutinise the candidates documents and then election by the people. noting to squable in it. I don't think limited frenchise is a good idea, although it is workable.



The religion has always been used to score personal gains. initially, it was the period of anti-Ahmdi movement in 1953 which strated the role of religion in Pakistan politics, albiet objective resolution was passed already but i see Obj Resolution very productive if used and read in unbiased way.

Ayub used the religion to get support of religious parties and supress the leadership of Madam Fitima Jinnah.

Bhutto also initiated a policy of islamic socialization only after, when he saw the success nowhere without religious parties' support.

Zia period is not to mention about islamization. Majority of the critiques are of the view that today's militancy is the product of his policies.

Musharraf also used religion for political numbering and scores.

we, in pakistan, have never tried to use the productive side of the religion. Just see article 62, 63 of the consititution, which are related to MNA's candidature, have been incorporated in the consititution for never-to-be-used purpose.

Although religion is a unified force that bound together the masses which consequently bring solidarity among them, according to Ibn-e-Khaldoon. However this has not been the case in Pakistan due to illiteracy of the masses, personal lust for power by the dictators as well as civilian political leaders, shia - sunni tussle widely generated by islamic countries -- iran, saudi, libya etc, and, accept it or not, absence of support for pure sharia system in Pakistan by its masses.

Keeping in view the desecretion of religion in Pakistan, I am convinced, though sadly, that the religion should be separated from politics. there is no way to keep the name in the politics if we are not implementing it. as a practice we have only been using it selectively.

However that does not meant to end federal shariat court, shariat benches, islamic ideological council etc. the need is to streamline these institutions with the current age throgh research and ijtehad. the recomendations of IIC should be considered by the parliament - none of the recomendation has been taken up in the parliament in last 7 years according to chairman IIC. All religio-political parties and sectarian groups who are getting foreign aid and promoting disharmoney and sectarianism alongwith other countiry's agenda should be banned. we need to focus on inclusive islamic appraoch though sufism as envisioned by Sunni Itehad Council.

I am thankful to all of you for such a enthusiastic participation. keep it up

i am accepting my mistake.i agree with you.but we may only success and stable our country strong and welfare state when we leave the western and other nations nations trend .we have our own system for entire life in our indiviual and collectively.first we have to decide what is wefare state ,then identify the principal of politics on the basis of shorai system.as Allah says ...wa amrohum shora bainahum....(ash-shora) .then we will be in position of journy to the islamic wefare state.in pakistan some problem in theacraatic state we have to identfy them.most important is that our leadership shold be responsible to masses at every step...........i am preparing a brief note on this top,inshallah i post it after some days.

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: EDUCATION AND UNITY WINS ALL WARS:

i am very sad after your post as above,where you conclude that religion should be separate.you have also quote some aspects of our state history,these are all true but only those people were used who were not fully aware of our politics on the base of islamic principal like shora.they were claim no system rather then raising slogans of Islamic gov.i am fully assure that they did not know regarding any system of politics.it was need that they should united then claim a disciplinary movement with system of Islamic welfare state.but it was not happened.we need awareness entirely our system with strong claims then we succeed but it is false that we have to leave it and struggling for secular state.

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: EDUCATION AND UNITY WINS ALL WARS:

First of all, I am also sad saying that religion should be separated from politics. We need to be pragmatic; our history does not allow us to use religion in politics anymore. this may not be true in entirety that the people who used religion as a tool does not know. I would say that were highly educated people. Don't you think our army, politicians, heads of islamic parties are educated enough to understand the reality. they understand. they used religion for their own politics. MMA and JUI-F are examples in recent history.

secondly, secular state does not mean that state should encourage vulagarity and anti-islamic deeds. infact secular mean to be religion-neutral. this means that no one should be allowed to use religion for personal benifits. However the fact of the matter is that I have not said that we should struggle for a secular state. My point is; our constitution should be like as it is (no change in objective resolution, IIC etc). implementation of article 62, 63 should be strictly observed. federal sharait court may be disbanded as we have supreme court for the same purpose. only those religious parties should be banned who have their role, may it be so tiny, in sectarianism, violence or militancy by the election commission. other religious parties, if any, can can continue their work.

ONe thing we all should be clear about. the problems of pakistan, including desecrition of religion, are intersected and interlinked. this means we need to overhaul the whole system through an inclusive, holistic, comprehensive and integrated appraoch. I hope you got my point

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Ahmad Shakeel Babar
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"If you really want to achieve something the whole universe conspires for you to get your dream realized."

thanks,i got your point of opinion.if you say that religion should thrown out from politics then the other side is liberalism,secularism,fascism,communism,socialism. ....whatever your choice.these are fully against the spirit of Islam bz these system does not believe on divine or rasool or any Superior personality.your threats regarding our political system are true and as you say here anybody should have no right of politics regarding religion.actually at the time of our slavery under u.k they emphasis that some individual work related Islam is fully Islam and it should be far away from politics.they had realized us that Islam cant implement now a days.i m suggesting you book :islami riasat: by syed moudodi,hopefully it will answer you clearly.but keep in mind we should at one side whether in islam or other system.it is not possible that we will Muslim and our some phase of life without it.

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: EDUCATION AND UNITY WINS ALL WARS:

Dear Hamza Salick I really appreciate your worthwhile opinion. But i would like to add some my opinion, Islam is our religion and we are Muslim, our whole life should be demonstrable in the way of Quran and Sunnah ( the teachings of the our Holy Prophet (PBUH) ) whether we are Politician, Administrator, Teacher, Worker ,Student or belongs to any profession of life. Thats mean we should do all things in an Islamic way. So Islam should present in Politics, Administration, Management, Teaching and all profession of Muslim Life. So our politics is Islam our Administration is Islam and over all act is Islam if we follow all rules and regulation of Islam.

Islam is not like that you only follow some principles and others are avoidable or in other words Islam is not applicable on Administration and Politics.


In Pakistan every thing is misused, so our religion Islam is not blamable. Blame is for those person who use it for their tyranny purpose.

Minorities is living every where and every country. In Pakistan we did not see any incident happen against minorities before 9/11. After 9/11 scenario has been changed because USA govt declare this war as a holy war or cruise against Muslim world so it is the result of that types of incident occurred. Anyways, wrong is wrong, blame for those who used any law for his/her favor. In Salman Taseer case, as per my view he used to saying harsh word against Scholar and against Blasphemy Law in public, if he had any reservation he should arrange scholars meeting and discussed that issue with Scholars. He made big mistake he discussed that sensitive matter in public openly with his pin point and harsh language so reaction came from Mumtaz Qadri.

Here is the mistake of higher court, if court taken any suo moto notice against Salman Taseer for using harsh word openly in public, the assassinated matter never happened.

Our Govt, legislation and public are at mistake. There is no mistake of Islam and Islamic principle.

The huge mistake is we do wrong interpretation without having commendable knowledge of Islam. No one can give interpretation on Islamic laws only with basic knowledge.

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ASIF AMIN

Religion is a SOCIAL INSTITUTION and a social institution fulfills certain human needs in a society. Upto 1977, there was less mixing of religion with politics and the people were happy with this situation as no interference was done in others" religious beliefs by anyone. The reactionary movement of "Nizam-a-Mustafa" (after secular policies of Z. A. Buttho) and the arrival of Gen. Zia on the scene changed the situation to great extent.
Gen. Zia bring religion in the state affairs with the cooperation of some religious organization and a particular sect was patronized for some vested interests. It created divisions among the muslims of pakistan and there started the worst sectarian war that is still going on in some parts of the country.
Now, if we want to study the Role of Religion in Pakistani Society, we have to see the situation before 1977 and after 1977. What was the role of religion then and what is the role of religion currently in our society. A huge difference will be found between two periods which is worth studying for the scholars.

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/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

as soon as i get time i'll definitely explain it to u.but for the time being its enough for u that islam never prohibits siasat at all.siasat means an art or science of governing the government.in simple words ap is ko yun b le skti hain k siasat mein ap violent huy bgher dosron se wo bat manwaty ho jo ap ko lagta hai k sahi hai.ab masla siasat ka nhn hmari apni soch ka hai k jisy hm haq samjh rhy hain kya wo wakai he haq hai ya mehaz hmary interests ki pasdari ka libada hai.i hope jis waja se main ne ap ko ye bat kahi thi wo ap ko samjh aa gai ho gi and once agian sorry if i made u annoyed:-)

aur ye kab ka waqiaa hai k mein ne kaha ho,Islam prohibits politics?

mein ne tou tooti phooti angrezi aur poetry k saharay ye he arz kernay ki naqis koshish ki thi k "Qaum mazhab se hai,mazhab jo nahi tum bhi nahi"...Zehmat tou ho gi.....mger aik dafa phir meri post pe nazr e karam daalye

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Love is my Shield,Truth is my Sword,Brain is my Crown,Smile is my Treasure and I'm a Queen;
Quitters never win and Winners never quit..!!!

well miss farah im sorry i was not intended towards u there was a girl who said that islam siasat se mana krta hai main ne usy kaha tha that was not for u.im sorry again