for all:

Imagine that a poor person comes to you and asks for a thousand rupees so that he can rent a cart and earn some livelihood for himself and his family. assume that you in fact do have a thousand rupees to spare and you are willing to help the guy. in all probability you will do either of the three:

1. you will just give away the thousand rupees to him and wish him good luck.
2. you might say to him," if you make a lose, no problem. but if you make a profit you will give me 5% of your profits."
3. you might say to him," ok brother, i do not care whether you make a lose or a profit. but at the end of the year not only will you return me the thousand rupees but you will aslo give me Rs 100 above the thousand."

let's say that there are three thousand guys who have a thousand rupees each to spare.
and that a thousand choose option 1. the other thousand choose option 2. the third thousand choose option 3.

let's say further that the first thousand collect their money and call it a box of money.
the second thousand collect their money and call it a vault of money.
the third thousand collect their money and call it a bank of money.

now without going into the past or the future. without yammering about systems and sciences. without talking about the modern world or the ancient world or the Muslim world. without politics or economics. without thinking about implications or causes. simply choose the one in which you will deposit your money:

a box, a vault or a bank

regards

Islamiat and Pakistan Studies are ideological exams. They don't ask what you believe in but ask what you are expected to believe in. So you don't have to satisfy the paper checker that there isn't anything like that in Islam. Just write down what you're expected to believe in.

Ironic that you're telling him to keep his conclusions private but you're doing the opposite.

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He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

Well it doesn't, power still remains in few hands even under democracy with the only difference being those hands are in pockets, I.e. they work secretly behind the scenes. It transpires into a phenomen where what is happening right before you becomes just an illusion and you never know who is causing you pain and distress

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Well, I disagree with that. There is no limit to the checks and balances that can be imposed in a democracy, and it is done in the developed world. I remember I once gave you an example, and I'll repeat it, that the French rich have to pay as much as 70% of the tax. How did this happen? Obviously, because of the pressure of the middle class which is aware and educated and knows how to voice its opinion. True, American Democracy is a slave to corporate mafia but that is not the only democracy in the world (it's still better than dictatorship, though. Anyone can drag any large organization into court, sue it, and earn millions). That's the beauty of it. Its a flexible system. The more educated and aware the public is, the more checks and balances can be imposed on the "elite" which otherwise gobbles up the resources of the country. And besides, we don't have a better alternative.

Hmmm so that means democracy 'behaves' differently in different environments, we only see how it behaves in our environment (of Pakistan) which is highly disgusting

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Of course, it varies from environment to environment. Only last night I was reading Party Politics in Pakistan 1947-58 by K K Aziz, and it gives a very detailed analysis of the dirty games that politicians played during that era and which eventually culminated in Ayub Khan's coup. The last chapter is reserved for the analysis of democracy in third world, particularly Pakistan, and why it was not able to take roots. But right not I'm watching an excellent film and don't want to move from my place (pardon my laziness) but I'll post some very thought provoking excerpts from the books soon. It really taught me a few important things about democracy in Pakistan and the reasons behind its slow progress. I'll get back with the excerpts.

Enjoy your movie bro , I will be waiting for the excerpts with a question in mind that if this system is so messy for this country's environment why should it be preferred

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Well, Sir you have done a great job misreading and misinterpreting me. If you are a CSS aspirant, my brotherly advice is to worry about Precis and Comprehension paper.



Well, may be you are exaggerating a bit. I am having hard time finding this hunger in western civilization which has applied the principles of liberal capitalism in its true essence; they are reaping the rewards of resultant productivity and efficiency. Their governments and courts dong their jobs alright by insuring justice and availability of basic necessities, like food, health and education etc, to the public. Despite being non-Muslims they are better 'Muslims' than us.

And yes speculation(the thing they do in stock markets) is, understandably, not allowed in Islam. Governments can ban such activity. I will be the first one to vote, if given a chance, for stock markets to be banned.



"Building upon Quran" is, unfortunately, something that we haven't done as often as we should have because we got ourselves stuck to the so called 'principles' to understand Quran. If a 'book' is out there and a person wants to read, understand and learn from it, then how fair does it look to hand him a 'list of principles' to understanding it?

It's completely different thing if that book itself refers to some principles which are to be used for understanding it.

Here are some of those principles which you are trying to impose.


Bad news for you buddy, No Mehdi or Messiah (AS) is coming.
You might want to have a look at this article by Dr Khalid Zaheer (the very person whose article, link to which Gypsified posted in the first post, we are debating in this thread) .

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...-or-story-8054

Individuals are the basic unit of a society, government and economy. If Quran e Hakeem can make better human beings then 'everything else' is automatically taken care of.

I have presented my case about interest in earlier posts. Here I want to give an example, which prompted in my mind just now, that how Khulfa e Rashdeen, who in Subhan's own words were taught and trained by Prophet (PBUH), did Ijtihad when It came to implementing the true goal of Quran and Islam and when it came to understanding Quran in the perspective of the times. Sir Kashif referred to Hazrat Umar's (RA) act of keeping Mujahideen off the conquered lands in Iraq while in Surah Infal Almighty has asked for only one fifth of the 'mal e ghneemat' for the state and welfare purposes.

"And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the [stranded] traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent." Al-quran 8:41


I have recently learned that our very own Hazrat Allama Iqbal (RA) did not regard banking interest as 'riba'.

for reference you can see following link
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/...0110624&page=9

How did early Muslims run the state of affairs? Zakat is for the poor as there are 8 categories of people who can receive Zakat. Therefore, Zakat cannot be equated to State Tax. So how did 7th century Muslims finance their wars and governance? What was their economy based on? Spoils of war? For which the Quran has given detailed injunctions. Slave trade? Yes. Jizya? which is non-Muslim tax. If one doesn't give Zakat, is there any punishment? I couldn't find a worldly one. So it's a personal matter between a Muslim and Allah. That also means it is voluntarily obligatory just like Namaz, Roza and Haj.

How is jizya and spoils of war relevant in the present age? Mind it that slave trade is also part of the spoils of war.

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He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

To my knowledge, zakat from Muslims, Jizya form non-Muslims and Mal e ghneemat form conquered areas were only revenue sources.

Zakat is a tax and it is best if govt collect it and then redistribute it to poor or use it build infrastructure for them. In addition Quran, quite repeatedly, asks Muslims to do 'Infaq' (charity).

Among the four major Ibadaat, which are Namaz, zakat, roza and hajj, only first two i.e. Namaz and zakat are the ones that can be enforced by a muslim state. As is given in following aayah

"[And they are] those who, if We give them authority in the land, establish prayer and give zakah and enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong. And to Allah belongs the outcome of [all] matters." Al-quran 22:41


We have various misconceptions about zakat and its ratio. Here is bit of detail:
Let me first remind us of the items (other than livestock) on which Zakah is applicable, these are:
Wealth (money or asset that is not in personal or business use): 2.5% annually. The most practical way to pay this amount is to fix a date in a year, every year in that date the total wealth is figured out and 2.5% of it will be paid as Zakah (this does not include the money that you are using on a daily basis to meet your expenses, e.g. the part of the salary that, as your routine, will be spent for living rather than saving. Technically this is not wealth).
Produce that can be 5% (for those items which are produced by the interaction of both labour and capital), 10 % (for those items which are produced such that the basic factor in producing them is either labour or capital) or 20% (for those items which are produced neither as a result of capital nor labour). In principle the zakah of production need to be paid when it occurs. (Production not only refers to agricultural production but also to profits, salaries and rents etc.)

Basically we think that we are required to pay zakaw only on wealth. Well, It's not correct. Many scholars maintain that if are paying income taxes then we are exempt from paying zakat on produce/income. A more cautious approach would be to calculate the rate of income tax and if you are paying less than the required rate of zakat then you should pay more to poor people to reach the 5%, 10%, or 20% mark.

For datails you can see this link
http://www.javedahmadghamidi.com/ind...nce/view/zakat