How can namaz be enforced? and the word establish in this ayah is for them to establish prayer -namaz qayam kero- not enforce it ..

I think Ghamadi's site has broadened the expanse of heads of zakat, which are 8 and mainly poor and needy. Salaries of the zakat collection agency, not the entire administration of the state, is one of the heads.

Riba- double and multiple looks like loan sharking of today...

It's because he believes zakat was the only tax that khulaf e rashdeen collected. And also he views income tax as as a form of zakat. may be that's why...

Yup it could mean that the state will facilitate the Namaz like allowing breaks for Zohar or juma prayers etc. In what other ways govt can facilitate qyam e namaz? any ideas?

yup it's it.

Yes. State can facilitate namaz, not enforce it. Same is the case for Zakat. A zakat department can facilitate Zakat, poor-due as it is translated in Islamiat textbooks.
And namaz qayam kero means namaz parho .. not qayam kerao ..

__________________
He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

Zakdt is not almsgiving or charity. Its proper place is in the books on Law. In the time of the Holy Prophet and his successors, the Muslim subjects of the Islamic State paid no tax to the government other than zakat which covered the entire fiscal system. Zakat al-ard was the land revenue; zakdt al-tijarah was tax on commercial capital as well as on import customs; zakat al-mashiyyah was imposed on herds of domesticated animals living on public pastures; zakat al-ma'ddin on the sub-soil products; zakat al-'ain was imposed on savings of money, and so on and so forth. Every tax imposed by the government on Muslim subjects was included in the term zakat.

http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/hmp/LXI-Sixty-one.pdf page 1224

This classification is according to where zakat is collected from, not where it is spent. It is supposed to be spent on 8 heads for which we have a clear Ayah. The text you quoted is silent on that.

__________________
He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

Hazrat Abu Bakar , Usman, Umar and Ali (R.A) were true muslims we know that for sure since Prophet S.A.W said it so:
Imam Muslim narrated from Abu Hazim who said:
I was with Abu Hurairah for five years and I heard him narrate from the Prophet (SAW) that he said: "The Prophets used to rule Bani Israel. Whenever a prophet died another prophet succeeded him, but there will be no prophets after me; instead there will be Khulafaa' (Khalifahs) and they will number many". They asked: what then do you order us? He said: "fulfil allegiance to them one after the other. Give them their dues. Verily Allah will ask them about what he entrusted them with".

The thing is that a true muslim does not mean he or she won't make any mistakes. Scholar say that one can have disagreements with some decisions made my them but none can doubt their character, intentions and nobility. There is no such thing as perfections in Human.

"We must put an end to anything which brings about any Islamic unity between the sons of the Muslims. As we have already succeeded in finishing off the Khilafah, so we must ensure that there will never arise again unity for the Muslims, whether it be intellectual or cultural unity"
The British Foreign Minister addressing the British Prime Minister shortly before World War II.

"The situation now is that Turkey is dead and will never rise again, because we have destroyed it's moral strength, the Khilafah and Islam" Lord Curzon, British Foreign Minister, infront of the House of Commons after the Lausanne Treaty of July 24th 1924.

Here is some objective historical fact that Khilafat was our golden time, why the west is so determined not to revive our spirits?

I agree no matter how objective I try to be, I will still be subjective. So are you. That is why I leave it to the readers and will not say that my facts weigh more than others (which you claimed).
It is a strategic management concept. If the idea is right but is implemented the wrong way. It is ineffective and inefficient. If the idea is wrong but implemented right, it will not be sustainable. If the idea is wrong and is implemented wrongly, it is a disaster and if the idea is right and is implemented in the right way, it is a break through and success.

What they do is not sustainable because they are doing whatever is good for their economy (wrong thing). In a very very sophisticated way (right way).

The greatest example I can give you is the recent financial crisis and euro crisis since I am a student of finance. No one can argue that the have established a very sophisticated system of financial institutions, very vast and organised. No doubt in that. But we finance students know that the devil is in the details. They did not give up on ursury and gambling. These bonds and loans, call options, put options all in general are haram. What is haram is actually not good for the society and humanity. This is the GREATEST example of the failure of the west and how flawed is their financial system. In Europe, more that 5.5 million people are unemployed and 1.3 million people are expected not to be ever get employment even if their damaged economy heals(structural unemployment). Watch inside job, you will know what evil is their in the wall street. Citi bank, Barclays, and the big three rating companies Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch Group and many other were all involved in the crisis. What I am saying is that these are very well organized institutes but behind these sophistication, they were implementing wrong practices. Which is not sustainable and financial crisis proved that. There economic structure is not sustainable at all, their econometric professionals will tell you that such failure are inevitable in their financial and economic system. It will happen again and again. And you know what, every time the rich gets extreme profits from these crisis and poor and common people has to bear the burden mostly. So why the rich will ever want to change that?
What is happening in Japan? the top economies of the world? Behind their pomp and show, what is their debt (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-tax-rise.html) . Also watch "No Sex Please, We're Japanese" . Japanense are trying like hell not to beg the world for bail out. Argentina has already defaulted and it is not their first time. How many big economies defaulted in the euro crisis?
How is U.K and U.S is showing increase in their GDP? because they have expanded their definition of it. U.K has added drugs and prostitution in counting GDP and it adds 5% to their GDP (16 billion $). 74% of U.S GDP is because of debt (12.6 Trillion Dollars). U.S debt level has reached the point of no return. They are like a camel who runs continuously without any sign of fatigue but eventually falls down and dies. Not sustainable. Many European countries have also come at a point of legalizing prostitution and sex trade. Germany is the role model in that regard. They do it because it benefits the economy. They have developed luxurious chains of sophisticated and organized (right way) brothels (wrong idea). I guess a new 4.6 million brothel in Germany and you know what? it is not the world's biggest. One million men go to these brothels everyday and the government earns money through sex tax (what a joke). You know how it will cripple their social structure. Trust me the west has no substance. As Iqbal said:

“Dunya ko hay phir Muarka e Rooh wo Badan Paish
Tehzeeb nay phir apnay darindo ko ubhara
ALLAH ko pamardi-e-Momin pa bharosa
iblees ko europe ki mashino ka sahara”

India have become their ally and is reaping some benefits, but hold on for some time. We will know how bad it will turn out for that. China is an exception and I agree we can learn a lot for them. But again, economics speculate that they are also in a bubble. But I think China will go a long way before actually have the downfall. (Har arooj ko Zawal hah).

This is the type of attitude (it simply won't work) my father has experienced all his life and conquered it. I learn a lot from him, he is a project director. He told me that saying something that it can't be done before actually doing it displays nothing but incompetency. All his life he carried out projects when they were assigned to the subordinates, they said sir it simply won't work and then he had to do it himself and yes Allah helped him prove others wrong all the time. Lets do it. If things that turn out to be impossible during the implementation, we will find a way out.

You misunderstood, I meant blind consumerism. And I also meant that we have become consumers to such an extent that it has actually become our shackles.

I really want you to keep smiling, but Dr Hameed is known as the father of Islamic Banking. He tried to revive the Islamic spirit of 7th century. Learn more about how much he succeeded. Watch "Islamic Economics - The Solution for World Crisis".

My apologies for misunderstanding and misrepresenting.

I will give you one area of research, "coffee business". You will know how it benefited the few and made miserable the whole Africa. Then study the financial crisis. What misery it actually brought. And wait there is more to come from a system you think has eliminated the ill effects of interests and gambling. Under this financial system, such crisis are inevitable. And trust me a lot of institutions want that. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertle...vice-chairman/)
Brother I was a CFA student and left because it is all gamble and ursury.

A person who just wants to take advise from Quran does not need much depth. Not everyone wants to be a scholar, leader or policy maker. But those who want , there are then principles. And brother seriously this is a weak point. I had to go back and read 10 years old research articles to further my research.

I accept the conclusion of ijmah, and general consensus is that he will come. And I am not saying that "people relax, a savior will come and will save you from all the miseries, you don't have to move a muscle"
I did a lot of research too, and I came to believe:
1) Jews think of a prophet as their savior. "The eye" represents him. You will find it if you look. That prophet will actually be false prophet or dajjal.

2) Christian believe the Christ will come and save them. We believe that Prophet Esa A.S will come and will break the cross. And a lot of christians will become muslims.

3) You know about what muslims believe about mehdi and Esa A.S so .... If you want me to give you reference then tell many how many should I give?

Agreed. This is one perspective to look at but is same like if we all love each other then there will be no wars. If you are saying that Islam is a personal or individual matter then I don't agree with you. Islam is at all levels.

Brother I never said k lakeer k faqeer bunjao. I am sharing with you a course of action. Start with how they started, if that does not fit then find other way out keeping your faith and Islamic spirit alive. Hazrat Abu Bakar R.A also first refused to write down Quran as a book first because Prophet S.A.W did not do it himself, after finding that it is not suitable then he did as advised.
My point is that start with how they started, but by all means please start. We will evolve where it is necessary.

Allama Iqbal was also agains democracy and nationalism.
I am student of finance, and it is haram. And since you talked about ijmah, Ijmah is also that conventional banking is haram. BTW search yourself about call and put options and tell me is it gambling or not? Conventional banking is a mixture of gambling and interest. And you are very wrong that its ill effects are no more with the advancement of financial system. Again study financial crises and what practices were being done by the so called modern banking systems. I have a strong disagreement with you in that regard.

Well these days CSS has become application(of knowledge) oriented and mere ratafication won't help satisfy the checker. They ask for solution to modern problems in the light of Islam and by answering that with 7th century data might not help as they want us utilize that knowledge to present solution to those questions and I don't think they want us to answer those questions in a conservative manner but with a moderated and enlightened thinking. CE-2014 Islamiat paper contained question about possibility of an Islamic State under Democracy.

Well I guess Pakistan- a so called Islamic state under Democracy- is an answer to that question. But the paper checker would want to see a moderated approach to that question isn't it ?? Conservative thinking would say no to it but a modern approach would say yes it is possible....


Totally agreed with what you said and I have watched detailed analysis about K.K Aziz's "Murder of History" in Najam Sethi's show Aapas ki baat....

And I would love to read that report.... and will do it soon InshaAllah


Yes surely they want a critical approach to the question but I guess they also want us to be that sheep... and many teachers in lahore discouraged us to write openly in our answer to avoid failing...

Well that's what I have bee doing in my previous two attempts

__________________
Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.

Fiscality.-As already pointed out zakat is not at all almsgiving or charity, but the State tax, covering practically the entire fiscal system imposed on Muslim subjects. It is significant that the Qur'an prescribes no details as to the income, but gives very precise directions regarding the expenditure of the State. The implication seems to be that the government may have a free hand in increasing the revenues, but in matters of expenditure it should not deviate from the principles of a welfare State. The expenditure of zakat is much more important. The Prophet of Islam ordained that the income of zakat is religiously forbidden (haram) to him, to his family, to his tribe, and to the allies of his tribe. If the Head of the State is so scrupulous and does not abuse public confidence in money matters entrusted to his care, subordinates would be the less tempted to corruption. Further, the Qur'an has ordered that taxes should be spent under eight main heads of expenditure. They are to be levied only for the poor, the needy, the wayfarer, those who work for the State revenues, and those whose hearts are to be won, also for freeing the necks, and the heavily indebted, and for use in the path of God.
According to such a high authority as the Caliph Umar, ‘f ugara' (the poor) are those who belong to the Muslim com¬munity, and masakin (the needy) are from the non-Muslims. It is to be noted that the taxes do not come from the non-Muslims, yet the needy among them are the beneficiaries of these taxes paid only by the Muslims.
Those who work are the collectors, accountants, and controllers of expenditure, auditors, and others, embracing practically the entire administrative machinery of the State.
Those whose hearts are to be won may be of many kinds. The great jurist alm Ya'la al-Farra' observes: "Those whose hearts are to be won are of four kinds: (i) those whose hearts are to be reconciled for coming to the aid of the Muslims; (ii) those whose hearts are to be won in order that they abstain from doing harm to the Muslims; (iii) those who are attracted towards Islam; and (iv) those by whose means conversion to Islam of the members of their tribes becomes possible. It is lawful to benefit each and every one of those whose hearts are to be won, be they Muslims or polytheists."
By the term "freeing the neck," jurists have always understood the emancipation of slaves (which is a duty of the State!) and ransoming the prisoners of war, be they Muslim or non-Muslim subjects of the Muslim State.
Aid to those who have heavy debts or great burdens may be given in different ways. The Caliph Umar organized even a service of interest-free loans.
Expenditure "in the path of God" includes every charitable act, and the jurists from very early times have not hesitated to mention military equipment for the defense of Islam as the first item, since Islam struggles solely for the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth.
As for the wayfarers, one can help them not only by giving hospitality to them, but also by ensuring them physical well-being and comfort, providing means of communication, security of routes, and taking all other measures for their well-being, be they countrymen or strangers, Muslims or non-Muslims.
These items are wide enough to embrace practically all the requirements of a welfare State.

regardless of the question of Riba as far as i know he said that politics can't be separated from religion. what do you think that means?

also have you ever taken interest from your friend to whom you loaned some money? why?



http://www.allamaiqbal.com/publicati...ew/oct08/9.htm
In contemporary Pakistan it has become fashionable to argue whether Pakistan was intended by its founders (the leaders along with the masses who were led) to be a secular state or an Islamic one. This debate that lay dormant for decades has been revived at the behest of those who harbour a secular agenda either due to their personal proclivities or from those who are following directives from their masters residing in Western nations. If we reduce the debate to its binary opposites, we find the pseudo liberal who parades as liberal, but in the superficial element of his outlook is ostensibly secular (and materialist to the hilt) is on one side of the fence. Generally speaking, the latter is neither cognizant of the consequences of the secular experience of the West, nor is he concerned about the role of ethics and the deleterious effect of development on human society and ecology. On the other side of the fence we find a figure, known in the West by the name of ‘Islamist’[65]. The outlook of the Islamist is that of a bearded looking restive fellow, who, due to the lack of nuanced knowledge of his own tradition, appears exclusivist and reactionary in nature. But the Islamist gains respect from certain quarters of the society because of his recourse to the discourse of Islam. Save the exceptions of Iran and Saudi Arabia[66], secularists in the Muslim world are running their countries while the Islamists are mostly in opposition movements and contentious political parties, sometimes allowed and often banned by the states. The pushers for a secular Pakistan present the straw man of the Islamist as a horrific alternative to a secular state and want the public to jump on the secular bandwagon, realizing little the dangers of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Moreover, the secularists have the national and international civil, military and media establishments to back them up. It is unfortunate that the debate has been framed in a way that evades the middle ground, which is neither represented by the secularist nor the fiery fundamentalist. But so is the nature of the times we live in. The middle ground in our opinion is within traditional Islam that transcends both, albeit its spirit remains antagonistic with the structures and ethos created by the modern world. Intellectually and spiritually the traditionalist proponents of this middle ground remains one of the few intellectual challengers of the modern worldview. Because of power in numbers and the nature of modern Muslim mass society, politically and militarily this challenge to modernity, through modernity itself, has become the prerogative of the fundamentalist.

At this point in history, whether an Islamic state brings about Islamization of people or the Islamicness of people gives birth to a state that is Islam conscious is redundant. Maududi and Khomeini would argue that a state must directly enforce an Islamic way of life in order to counter the anti-spiritual tendencies of the modern, secular, liberal, Western world. In this view, protecting the Muslim way of life through certain institutions and laws, the state must play an active role. The liberal/modern Muslims would argue otherwise. If both agree that the Islamicness of society is at stake, the debate becomes redundant because both are mutually constitutive. Both diagnoses presented above of erosion of Islamic ethics in public life may be valid. Therefore, it can be safely assumed that an Islamizing state shaping people’s socio-religious moorings and Islamically inspired people giving birth to an Islamic order, feed each other. In a country like Pakistan, from either of the two routes, the state in the end does become more or less Islamized.