People would often become sick of democracy in this part of the world because although it's easy to win rights in a democracy but the underlying authoritarian culture and norms of morality, of which obedience and submission is a key virtue, would often make the exercise of those rights very difficult. Laws rules regulations often make very little difference and the powerful people who control both money and political power are incharge of every institution and can influence anyone's decision. Thus you educate people for democracy however it produces hypocrites because people don't actually see it in their real lives, all they see is lying politicians who believe in nothing beside personal power and partt politucs. This is perhaps one of the biggest challenge for democracy here. You cannot build an economy in such an environment, productive people would choose to live in a foreign country where they have better rights.

In this way incompetent and servile people who suit politicians and powerful people's desires get in jobs and positions of authority in the state. Thus political competition remains on the high whenever we have democracy and economic activities are to a great part allowed for the ruler's henchmen and criminals who support the politicians in their power struggle. This happens because belief in human freedom remains very low and distrust of human nature is commonplace. Collectivism is promoted at all costs and wealth is destroyed for political purposes. So whenever we have democracy strikes and political disorder becomes so commonplace that the very essence of democracy which is to keep politics at bay from the economy is destroyed.

First I'm not interested in a flame war that you call world war 3. You're 31 but behave like 13 when you say something like that. Moreover, I'm not interested in having an argument with a charlatan.


You're invoking free speech as your democratic right but have a problem with me when I use the same principle to call your bluff. Nice!

You call this evidence? That's rhetoric. How does any of that entail that we need a central undemocratic government? People want government to help means a welfare state, not a strong, centralized and authoritarian one. Take these words out and still we're fine.

Is that the evidence for we need strong, centralized and authoritarian state? It only seems to be evidence for want of local government and local issues are important.

You can't even seem to keep your fantasies out of discussions on democracy. A belief in democracy doesn't mean women wearing skirts but you cannot think otherwise clearly.
I don't have a problem with fascism or Hitler or your personal liking but I do have a problem with your charlatanism. You throw heavy words and disguise your deception when in actuality your words do not mean anything.

A case in point: Aliina asked what does that mean

Even if popular support for radicalism decline, we would perhaps face a depression and people will avoid working to produce more and more 'wealth' (which is perceived negatively), thus affecting the growth of economy.

And ladies and gentlemen the explanation of priceless words is even more priceless:

If popular support for radicalism goes down, but still people don't change 'collectivist' values for favor of 'capitalist' ones, you are gonna have a depression where politics remains one the rise everywhere and economic activities remain 'slowed down' or not producing wealth . Perhaps it is called 'class tension' or something .

The poor girl was actually making an effort to understand something meaningful out of this claptrap!

I'm sorry to say you're not worth my time.

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He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

You look like a rich kid who think democracy is for me others have right to free speech but they can't use it when I use my right to provoke and you provoke and cry don't you. You tried to make a maniac out of me when I was trying to learn by giving my ideas and getting others' in my own way. YOU MUST LEARN TO BEHAVE AND STOP ACTING LIKE SMARTEST A** ON EARTH.

When will you learn you are being a Mr. I Know All nerd. I said these are some basic problems that can cause trouble, how evolution takes place I don't know but I have doubts it might not be as YOU WANT IT... Anything beyond your fantasies irritate you don't they and you can't tolerate that. I was trying to give the poor girl some 'imagination' with which she could disagree and raise questions, and you are trying to act like a GOD who knows for certain and bashes 'STANIC thoughts' of other people for favor of your own fantasy land.

You don't worth my time as well, I wouldn't waist my head on a rowdy kid like you who lacks imagination and critical thinking, you are just being a democracy molana without beard who issues fatwas. Heil Hitler.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

One thing that I have learned in this discussion and it reaffirmed my opinion that not much has changed is the fact that adherents of this newly formed 'sect of democracy' are using the same old preaching tactics that molvis used, which are to preach your sect and ridicule others, accept queries only the ones that you can answer and rebuke at the ones you cant. Bear in mind as long as people keep listening to preachers who almost always promise to drag the strong tyrants out of power and continue to believe that institutions of the state viz. Parliament, the judiciary, police are just tools of the rich and strong and don't make any difference in their daily lives, their economic activities, their political activities, their family lives, and that free media is just 'corrupting their young ones', you always have a hitler lurking out there long as such beliefs and practices continue and preachers of democracy do nothing besides preaching and gaining followeship in the same old way; doesn't matter how much your holy books praise democracy and show its miracles in Scandinavia, UK, France, USA or wherever. You got to be honest about democracy and your culture, there are weaknesses in democratic form of governments that you must understand in the perspective of your own people. We have our own unique history, our own customs, norms, traditions and beliefs.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Hmm, right. So what Pakistan needs today is such a society in which the members respect and tolerate each others' point of views. I guess incorporating character building classes in our education system would be a good idea....but no, you two should continue as other issues such as Palestine-Israel issue etc are not as important as your grudges against each other. So goodluck with that!

P.s: There is no "poor girl" or bechari here, mind it you two, thanks!

Eid Mubarik everyone.

Tolerance is a virtue, it is necessary for individualism and production of ideas through imagination which have allowed mankind to reap marvels of science and technology. Intolerance is triggered by fear, fear of losing a loved one, fear of losing your status, fear of losing your community. It does trigger aggressive behavior, however it is necessary for community life. This fear has its roots in evolutionary psychology which enabled mankind to begin growing religious behavior and start living in communities, perhaps some 10000 years ago. Therefore both tolerance and intolerance are ok for me, with tolerance I will produce imagination and with intolerance I will compete . What Pakistan needs is people who can use their imagination along with sticking to text. It must be realized by Pakistanis that we are living in scientific age where knowledge is never absolute and comes through imagination gained by hard work of doing constant observation, experience and experimentation. Pakistanis must remain humble before nature and never claim absolute knowledge. It's so funny for me to see that now we are trying to build a dogmatic belief in democracy, and it makes me so humble before the majesty of nature that mankind is always helpless. Whatever I have written is soul product of my imagination. I always welcome if someone improves my imagination by being honest, telling truth, giving natural examples with clear rational logic and verified knowledge, and in the end claiming I don't know . But if a goathead comes and tells my holy democracy textbook says it has the solution of all problems of humanity, if we follow it we will have a place in western paradise with 72 hoors right here, then there will be confrontation . Just remember we cannot stand before nature which will bring about what it wants anyways, it can produce Hitler and it can also produce Cromwell.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

in simple words if i may;

If the past is passed on to the future without any vestige of creativity then the whole human drama is an atrocity in immolation.

So one line conclusion of mine would be 'what pakistan needs is to control eagerness and learn humbleness' . Promotion of tolerance is just imported propaganda and it shows how eager we are to be like them without going through all they have been through, no human being can tolerate what his/her nature doesn't allow . You have the right to disagree . Unnatural insistence upon tolerance would only result in increased intolerance or depression. A psychologist can correct me here

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

This, this is the sole reason why we are inferior to other developed countries as a nation, that we just keep on debating rather than doing something applicably. This, this is the very reason why we devalue the essence of democracy. Those who are saying that we are ready for WWIII, guys, be rational not emotional. Have a retrospective look at the past 2 world wars. How much blood has been shed, how many people have underwent the occurrences of world wars.

The time has come that we should end the so called debates here, switch of our PCs and help our country in prospering rather than prospering only on websites.

Of course, you have every right to voice your opinion. Nobody is stopping you from that. I do understand the fact that you’re quite unhappy with the present state of democracy in Pakistan and so am I. I mean there is corruption, lack of accountability, extremism and what not. But I still believe in the future of democracy, you see. We need to strengthen our institutions first. With education, awareness would spread and traditional attitudes would surely change.
I have felt pessimism in your posts but I choose to be optimist. If we, youth, won’t bring the change then who would, sir? I do respect your opinion but I quite disagree with you on some issues. If dictatorship is the solution then this country should have been at its peak in terms of development. But even after 67 years of independence our country is entangled in a poisonous cobweb of economic crisis, political instability and what not. I mean if you read history then you would know that Pakistan has been under the rule of dictatorship more than that of democracy. Now you might say we did experience economic boom for some years but I’ll tell you that was due to American aid. As soon as USSR backed out from Afghanistan, we were under the sanctions of US over our nuclear program. So you see even these dictators didn’t create some miracles as some would like to believe.
It’s high time; we’ve given enough time to dictatorship to take this country out of darkness. I personally believe that democracy should be given time to show its results. Note, I am not saying that that change would occur overnight. You’ve talked about imagination and creativity in your posts. Do you really think that an authoritarian government would lead to more/pure creativity and imagination? From this point, what I perceive is that you don’t want an authoritarian rule but a welfare state where every man/woman is granted his/her right. Well that’s what we want as well. Another thing, I didn’t get your point that “Pakistan needs to control eagerness and humbleness”. That doesn’t make sense at all unless of course you’re getting personal at somebody and that’s another thing.
One more thing, I guarantee you that I won’t start bashing the heads of people who support authoritarian government/ dictatorship because I have this unique virtue of “tolerance”. 
Anyways, enough said, thank you sir for sharing your views. I appreciate your time and effort!