Assalam-o-alikum

@last island

I'm impressed with your post

@ last island .... very broader elucidation. great work sis

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'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

@zorromehr

Hope you will understand this.

Hijab is not really a hurdle, but it is just "Enlightened Moderation" that is deteriorating our society.

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The Demand Of Faith Is To Bow Down After Hearing The Command. Faith Cannot Co-Exist With Ifs And Buts.

sigh ....i am really amazed at how u continously and deliberately mis interpret all what i have said ....leme explain it AGAIN

first of all I AM NOT AGAINST HIJAB !!!!!!!!!!!! AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT HIJAB CAUSE ANY DETERIOTION IN PERFORMANCE OF DUTY ETC
IDEALLY SPEAKING I AM IN FAVOUR OF WEARING OF HIJAB BY EVERY MUSLIM WOMEN

what i am saying that plz be realistic ....in today's society due to the misconceptions prevalent and in order to provide sustenance to her family a women might have to stop wearing burka or nikaab etc so that she gets an employment....thats the reality man ..must accept it ...

so in other words she has two choices.....either keep wearing hijab and dont do any WORTHWHILE(speaking in strictly monetary terms) job and thus languish in poverty which i think is a bigger evil (not the hijab but the poverty)...or stop wearing hijab in order to sustain her family (ie choose the lesser evil which is abandoning hijab)

now plz dont start saying we are gona change the system and blah blah...not even one of u have the power to do so ....

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and shall foreva the wolf inside me
will always seek a sheep inside you

@zorromehr
each and every one of us has the power to change the system my friend.........all we need is the will to change it.

if our generation thinks that we cannot change the system then we might as well kiss our country goodbye..............if we dont stand up for what is right then who will?

i gave up my medical career so that i would be able to be in a better postion to "change the system"..........dont tell me that i can't do it.............and if those of us who r already in a position to do something about it, such as urself, have this kind of attitude, then i am really sorry for my country.

we r suffering............and i call it "lethargic suffering"..........cause we all know what is plaguing our country but we dont have the guts, nor the passion, to cure it............but we have the ability, all we need is to chanel our ability into productive areas ............someone once said "the opposite of love is not hate, its indifference........the opposite of bravery is not cowardice, its indifference", and brother, this indifference towards the current state of affairs will ultimately be the reason behind our downfall.

now u may say that i am living in la la land, and i think emotionally and not rationally, but damn man, atleast i have a dream, atleast i have a vision..........what do u have? a good job, and thats it!!!..................

brother, i am not writing against u nor am i trying to entice u into a verbal brawl............but please, mend ur attitude.........our country needs people like u.........u csp officers r what we depend upon...........dont disappoint us


as far as hijab goes...........well, in my opinion, hijab does not affect a woman's ability to do any kind of work.........or more importantly, it shouldnt............but we men have to mend our ways too.........islam is not only for women...........men have to adhere to its rules too.
our problems start when men start enforcing islam upon women and forget that where ever the rules of modesty for women have been mentioned in the quran, the rules for modesty for men have also been mentioned.............
men should clean up their own house first and then start talking about "hijab for women".

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The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta,
held as a votive, not in vain, for the value
and veracity of such shall one day vindicate
the vigilant and the virtuous.
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""each and every one of us has the power to change the system my friend""

keeping my fingers crossed

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and shall foreva the wolf inside me
will always seek a sheep inside you

There’s a lot more to change in system than to veil all women in the world. There is one phenomenon that is bound to occur in all societies no matter how hardline or timid approach they tend to have. We call it “Social Change”. No matter how much one put in force to stop the change to occur it is inevitable. Our rhetoric won’t bring that natural process to a halt.

Now coming to the hijab debate, as far as it is concerned in Europe, there is one thing we call integration. But the definition of this integration varies as we have seen in contemporary times. Although European countries are always clamoring for this integration yet they have their own standards of integration. They need to be clearer about this integration concept. On one hand, they want all the cultures residing in their territories to retain their identities and yet become part of their culture with reconciliation. Ok this is something which can be settled through discussions and elevating the tolerance level. But on the other hand, they want their countries to become a melting pot with a new culture where nothing is distinguishable, place characterized by the intermixing of several races or culture. This is something implicit and they never spoke of it in public but it can be felt by studying their policies closely. Well, I say if this is their level of integration, then they should be honest about it and delineate it in clear and crisp terms. It’s not something offensive. They should define the level of integration and declare that beyond that particular limit they won’t accept any infringement or intrusion. That’s pretty fair! At least it is much better than being a hypocrite.

Coming to the Muslim community settled in those parts of the world, I wonder why they want to have the cake and eat it too. They are enjoying those green pastures. Though they are clamoring about discrimination yet they are not willing to leave that so called panopticon. Nobody forced them to leave their own country. If the governments of those countries do not want them to practice Islam what are they waiting for? If these countries find hijab pretty offensive, there’s no big deal. And honestly that’s pretty fair too. Do you like their culture? What if foreigners start wearing their cocktail, sheath or low-cut dresses, would you tolerate that thing? Answer is big no. This is a vivid example of ethnocentrism.

So either increase your tolerance level [though a limit should be there for everything, either in East or West]! Or be honest you don’t want that particular thing in your country [this piece is for West]!

So next time a woman who faces some problem regarding Hijab in West should leave that country, if she cannot leave the Hijab. One cannot have the advantages of both alternatives. If practicing religion is one’s aim then why bothering staying in a country where one is stereotyped. After all that’s not your country.

Now to be more specific, if you are asking does Hijab create any problem with respect to employment, my answer is yes, it does. This is not an employee’s view. This is what an employer wants. Of course, you should maintain your limits and if you’re feeling that it concerns your norms and freedom then decision is all yours. But in any case, either one should leave job or Hijab is ones personal concern. And if you see that problem on a broader scale [on societal level] then there should be some room for Ijtehad. Consensus building by the notable scholars. There are certain things that can be and should be enhanced in accordance with the current times. I’m not talking about innovation. Veil is one such debate that should be taken undertaken by the intelligentsia. Criteria can be modified according to current requirements. I wonder how a female engineer could work under scorching sun with hijab or a female peasant could till the land with all hijab. [There might be some people wondering why after all woman needs to be an engineer or peasant. Stop wondering because this is reality and you simply cannot shroud it by saying that these professions are simply not meant for womenfolk. Either they are meant for them or not –that’s not a question now. They are working in such fields. That’s the reality. So be real].


Last but not the least, criterion of a true Muslim should not be judged by anyone but Allah. I can’t prove anyone wrong by simply stating that since I’m right you are wrong all along. That is striking stance of narrow-mindedness.

@Duua
You talked about women engineers working in the field, i had 26 lady engineers passed out with me but i didn,t hear of anyone working in the field.Yes , there are two of them in the teaching field.One of them in telecomm but she is in the office and never visited sites.They can not work late night as male engineers can.So, why to waste those engineering seats only to have a well off spouse?

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Winners never quit and quitters never win.

Well,gud discussion going on,on a very controversial topic.But i would like to add a point in reply to the post of 555.
The discussion is about hijab not about women's right of education and occupation.So even if hijab is causing a hurdle in occupations,it doesnt mean that women stop pursuing knowledge.What u r talking is contrary to the spirit of Islam.Women have an equal of right to educational and occupational opportunities.And how to best reconcile the bridge between the troika of education,occupation and hijab is the topic of discussion.Sticking to the main topic,will make this discussion more clear and fruitful.

@Duaa( but also for general purposes)

Your views are a sober expession of a sense of outrage at the hypocritical sexist morality made by the male-dominated so-called moral-world.But it is the hard-core fact that majority of the sapiens are self-centred chauvinists:chauvinists of their sex,of their culture,of their relilgion and more broadly of their respective civilization.Very few of them are aware of the fact that how much their conception of morality is based on mere habit at the animal level( read close to instinct level) it is very little based on rationality which is the due reason if any human has right to feel superior to other animals.

Here moral codes are based on strange principles:one gender inherently superior to other,etc., how much this is scientific? woman is the sole carrier of sense of honour( if she is seen by someone,it should be a matter of declaration of war among still tribal mindsets(forgive my diabolic exaggeration just perceive my sense of disgust from this all world cultural scenario).

West,too,has its sets of bigoted approaches,we here the followers of a religion interpreted centuries ago nursing notions that everything is final for this great progressive religion have locked it into prison-house of orthodoxy to which Altaf Hali refers as a majlis jahaan batti hae naa diya which cannot truly enlighten the darkhouse of souls,,,whither and whence ijtihad?Neither West is ready to accommodate this Hijab culture neither we are ready to baptize their so-called natural and liberal morality.

The problem is that each human race takes itself morally superior and rational to what is utterly a progressive sequence of instinct morality that I am the fittest.

Coming out of larger humanistic self-pity I say that in reality and experience women are suffering because of men either they are hijab-wearing or not but this morally superior male comes forward to impose more restrictions in the name of religion or culture or civilization.

Tailpiece: I do not intend to hurt the vein of religiosity of any one;if, however, any one wants substantiation of any point I can refer to examples.

...Yasser

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Yasser Chattha