That's so nice of you! And it's your right by birth to argue on solid grounds. I'd love to have debate as I didn't have one for a long time on this board.
I totally argee with the insistence on "History of World"

Yes India did so, but saying that India concentrated on institutionalization of politics only will not be a fair arguement, they did consider the economy as well, and that's why the economy is strong as well.

I'm extremely sorry to say that there's no event or step in my limited knowledge that has to do something with 'Economy". The only thing our lead has concentrated always was 'Power", neither politics, nor economy.

In defence of my say, I'd like to remind you of Liaqat Ali Khan's first visit to USA (After emergence of Pakistan), where by he was asked to request whatever he needs for a new born country and he required 'arms' placing the reason that we're insecure, having India in our neighbour. At the same time Indian PM required for basic needs, i.e. industries that can provide food to their people.

So see the difference here! Election is secondary here, thought is primary!

Probably you're right! But isn't that more secularism, rather than democracy. Further according to constitution of 1973, no non-muslim can have the seat of PM or president of Pakistan.... I fear we cannot ever be democratic then, if you consider this as the base of democracy!

Yes, because in India, people from almost every sphere participate in election. Even Phoolan devi got right to participate, but tell me how many such examples are found in Pakistan.

I can expect positive from elections if:

Mukhtaran Mai participates in election
No feudal lord contests
At least 60% public casts votes

Talstai has rightly said, and you've got it as well! But I'd be happy all politicians and leads to understand same!

Memorable sig!

Yes, totally agree! But it's been 60 years not 60 seconds (minute)!

Right, but unfortunately Pakistan has never found a true democratic leader. Let me clear if leaders were democracy lovers, they must have to maintain it, rather making charters of democracy!. It's a shame on them that they have let the army rule be prolonged!

How can you be so sure, BTW?

What about the agenda? If they've agenda to crush a common man, they'll have enough time to go through it!

Please elucidate!

What basis?

We've enough personalities, I think! We're in need of pragmatic solutions, not personalities!


I do respect your views, and will appreciate a debate with solid arguements! Besides that you still didn't get my point of great expectations by charles dickens.I'd suggest you having a read of it, it's one of the classics!

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I could not believe these three lines would cause such a marvelous, hot and spicy debate. Well-done Qurrat sis: and Mazher bro: but Mazher you ought to be precise and to the point.


Sine Independence the result of Democracy, Dictatorship and Presidential form of Government is in front of us. Those who became the developed are due to their hard work, loyalty and succession of policies. It is our bad luck that every ruler changes the policies of previous government. There are very few chances for a developing country to be developed after 60 years.

Let us see who is sincere to our country. Every politician, bureaucrat and others have foreign accounts and property. If there is any difficulty for them in Pakistan they will go abroad and take the charge of their settled business. Q. Who will remain in the country if all of them escaped form the country?
Ans. Only the loyal nation of Quaid and Iqbal and sincere Pakistani.

How can a vote bring change while you all leaders are contesting election as a result of deal. PPPP has not given any of its ticket to a middle class person. Judges are under detention. All the opposition parties have their own notion, no party agrees with the other on the major national issues. They should show solidarity on the major national crisis.


I will believe in the fair election if every Pakistani affords to contest the election, that capacity is 2 to 5 Million at least.

This election will bring change i.e PPP will rule and PML-Q would be in opposition. These elections are welcomed by enormous suicide attacks and acts of terrorism.

May Allah keep the Pakistan safe and sound from the internal and external dangers and show us the right path to change the system and make our country developed and an example for the whole world.

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No matter how fast i run or how far i go it wont escape me, pain, misery, emptiness.

Baat niklai gii too door tulak jayi gii..However ,let us see how two intellectual respond each other ..

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I criticize because i am not an authority and i love because i do not mean it .

salam
ya question of common man arise
but where we have to go
just to sit in home
watch selection results and not election results
winter is in full mood
see t.v and get enjoy
no wory
election bycott or part of election process does not cause a change in common man life
t.c

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{{{{{{{{{{{{{ d@r3 2 f@c3 me }}}}}}}}}}
rEmembEr me in Y0Ur pR@yers

@ mast420

Thanx 4 nice suggestion

@ QurratulAin

OK

U r right but I maintain my saying coz on her Preority list, Strengthening of political institutes remained 1st point.

U know more than me that Both things "Politics and Economy" are directly related to each other

Work 4 one will giv u result 4 second on Auto basis.

U r right..... coz General Ayyub Khan admitted the fact that he had come 2 power just for the sake of his own political ambition.

But

U didn't get my point. I was trying 2 say that at that time it was beleived that Military Rule was responsible 4 better economy so it was argued by General Saab at that time and followed the same path. (Views of Shahid Javed Burki)

not fair ..... That was the absolute need of that time

With due respect, I totally disagree with u. It was the most need of that time. Thought must b different coz there was hell of difference b/w both nation's condition and questions.

The debate-soul can not b associated with the quoted example

Much thanx 4 my correction. u hav used Absolutely the right word. I consider the above mentioned thing but on secondary basis. First u must admit the supremacy of constitution. As this is saying just obey it. Modifications will come on next step.


Fault is in our thoughts dear. V hav stopped 2 hav dreams. no hope is there in youth, no spark can b seen in nation. All r thinking that "Everything has been damaged and no one can correct this situation.... Hopeless Approach."

Iqbal has truly illustrated that:

Khuda nay aaj tak uss qaum ki halat nahin badli
na ho jis ko khayal aap apni halat k badalnay ka

(This is the accurate interpretation of a Quranic verse)

How will it happen? just reply

Plz write the "Procedural path" 2 hav these signs if it is possible. If not plz mention!

All hav got except u dear coz u said in continuity that:

V hav not started our journey. (see plz again "the Quote")

U r right.... but there must b a start 2wards confession of our failures.
Let us start with mine......... I admit all of stated failures by us with open-heart and mind.

At least we initiate a difficult and long war that is started in thoughts with positive approach.

y r u so negative?
anyhow ok with ur comment.... but u must bear the load of Ruling Elites for 5 years in any "+ve" or "-ve" case and prepare urself 4 better option next time.

It will make ur political institute strong alongwith parties.... coz there will b an ultimate need 4 Ministers 2 follow the given agenda of party 2 acquire next term-ticket.... the best path 2 filter the currupt Political systemetic viruses i.e. Puppets

Parties will enjoy more powerful status rather than Personalities.

U r absolutely right.... I was not duely presented myself. I also asked " Personalities will be out of the game coz parties will be the replacement of them"

My mistake 2 interprete.....


I m pasting now with more attention and presence of all sences my previous post 4 u

plzzz must read it

"Wo fareb khurda Shaheen, jo pala ho Kargiso-n mein
Usay kia khabar k kia hay? Rah-o-Rasm-e-Shaah-bazi"

(Iqbal)

@ ziakhan

I agree with u that 3 things are essential 2 acheive any target:

1) Will
2) Determination
3) Consistancy

That is our bad-luck in deed that v hav not yet pursued towards 1st step i.e. "will"

Nothing is impossible as I quoted the sigs of my fellow I m Possible in my previous post.

If there is somethings seems difficult 2 solve, we must start 2 think about its solution. k Iqbal said:

"Taqdeer k Qazi ka yeh fatwa hay azal say
hay jurm-e-zaeefi ki saza marg-e-mufajaat"

Nice illustrative approach

Who will break the ice?
Who will address these issues?

not u and mine?

Absolutely right..... how will they show if they r consistently and continuously intervened by Military?

well said bro

no problem ..... we should welcome the results and think seriously about the future of Pakistan. This is not important who will rule over the country? Important thing is that Political parties must rule as they belong to the masses.... not Military Dictators. These elections will prove a starting point of required filteration process in my opinion.... if u think positive!

All of stated probs r legacy of Military Regimes. So bear them with patience and be careful in future 2 hav such a stupid Rule!

Aameen

What should I say as I mentioned it earlier....

"God helps those who help themselves"

With best regards,

Waiting 4 corrections 4m ur prestigious side,

Ur Mazher

@ QURRATULAIN & ZIAKHAN


2DAY NO REPLY WAS FOUND BY ME 4M UR VALUED SIDE.

SO,

ME LEAVING 4M THIS THREAT WITHOUT SAYING ANY WORD.

WAITING 4 UR POSITIVE CRITICISM 4 MY BETTER APPROACH.

WITH BEST REGARDS,

MAZHER

@Mazher

I don’t have the solid arguments because I have very little knowledge. The Don of debate Miss Qurrat will reply you in well manner with solid arguments. She has vast study and knowledge. Please do not put me in this category but I will try it.

It I got that opportunities it would be great honor for me to do something for our homeland like heaven.

Who invited the military? Since 1947 we are blaming on another no one is ready to say “I am responsible” and this is the solution. What did they do in their reign? You cannot conquer a nation by only shouting and baseless manifesto. Do something practically.


Good, but B.B says “ I will accept the results if I got the majority of the seats". If she has the objection than how can you accept the results please also see the circumstances which I mentioned in the previous post, in which we cannot accept the result.

We are thinking seriously for Pakistan sine 1947 so think more there is no restriction on dreams this is the only hope.

Why? Alas! If an educated voter don’t know the value of his vote and about the leader (who has to decide his fate). Personality is very important. We have to follow a leader who has good reputation and for him we have to give sacrifice.

See PPPP, MMA (JUI-F), PML-Q, PML-N, MQM-pro govt: Parties and The parties having one or two seats have boycotted the election and they are in opposition. They are PIT, PMAP, JI, and BNP etc

So the parties of masses belong to which category?
Having the 8 seats or the other. You should see their record what did they do?

I think it is ending point.


Mazher one think keep in mind as we love Pakistan the Army and Politicians will also. Our main problem is “Change” the people want change. When the Nawar Sharif was dethroned the people were dancing and distributing the sweets and now the same public is against the Mr. Pervez Musharaf, why we accepted him?

This is due to the lack of strong Democratic Foundation. If we had that than this would never happened.


Two quotations that will clear my viewpoint.

Long dispute means both the parties are wrong.

Making mistake is not a mistake but repetition of mistake is a mistake.

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No matter how fast i run or how far i go it wont escape me, pain, misery, emptiness.

Politics and Economy though having direct relationship within them do require individual planning, and execution. Yes, a combine effort results in boosting up both but if there's a loop hole in any one of them the tiring efforts at other remain worthless. Hope you got my point!


No matter General Saab admitted or not, the history itself is evidence for all other regimes as well.




Wasn't food, shelter and health the need of time?

Yes, there was difference in conditions, but the balance in defense & basic needs could have been maintained. Any ways, m' not arguing for the change of strategy but just to highlight the streamline set at very threshold.

That's a lame excuse, I think. We accept leaders with all their goods and bads, and highlighting their mistakes do not mean to criticize them, but just for information for the forth coming leads not to repeat those.

According to researches, dreams are our thoughts in unconscious so if we stopped dreaming, means we don't have enough thoughts to dream about, so fault still lays in thoughts.

I completely disagree, that there's no hope in youth. I think you might not have seen the work by youth. I'd recommend you to explore the youth parliament. I'll also recommend you to read Dr. Awab Alvi, and some extremely good youth at chowrangi.com and chowk.com (These are only examples on web) further exploration will show you the exact scene.

hehehehehehe! That's a good spin. It was a question for you to answer Read between the lines!



Action is still needed!
I might was negative if any of my statement would have been baseless or without any solid argument. All my statements do not lack arguments and base so I don' think you can list me as negative.

May I ask why? It's no compulsion!

My questions are still unanswered.



One thing I'll request you, if you don't mind please, use the default font color and formating, as it's good from readability point of view! Thanks for understanding!



Regards,

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