Federal Budget 2013-14 represented - Page 6

Furquan592 · #51 Saturday, June 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta

Study Keynes consumption theory. Saving increase with higher income and consumption increase with lower income.

How consumption can increase with lower income????????when Keynes said that?????????

Invincible · #52 Saturday, June 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan

My friend Islam is the foundation of everything.....and i think whatever we do or say, Islam must be the quintessence of that.....People were lamenting at not increasing the salaries, i just told them that do not long for increment rather seek Barkat in your incomes.....However one thing is very sure that people would only appreciate what is away from Islam.....true said Sir Muhammad Iqbal.....

وہ زمانے میں معزز تھے مسلمان ھو کر
اور تم خوار ھوے تارک قرآن ھو کر

Now what is happening is that if you want your opinion be appreciated just talk what is against Islam and people will adulate you, i am well of without such appreciation.....

Stay Blessed....

What an absurd view! There is no link between this Budget & our beautiful Religion. Our Economy is not an Interest-Free Economy; Will you try to understand it? Please stop dragging Islam into this debate.

You are tying to defend what is indefensible. Highlite their mistakes instead of hiding so that they wont repeat it in next Budget.

Cheers!

sabahatbhutta · #53 Saturday, June 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furquan592

How consumption can increase with lower income????????when Keynes said that?????????

Read his General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money.

Raja Gujral · #54 Saturday, June 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan

My friend if you are not like them then don't ask for treatment as they had.....ALLAH aamal k mutabik faislay krta hai.....sedhi c baat hy, ooper pathar phenko gy to phool ban k nhi giren gy, pathar he wapis ayen gy.....

bhai mein ny tarakki ki to baat he nai ki, ager tarakki py ayen to sahaba to duniya k ghareeb tareen log they aur Kaisar o Kisra had all the luxuries of the world.....aisi tarakki to unho ny b kabhi nai ki.....to apko koi ghalat fehmi ho gai hy k Sahaba buhat taraki yafta they.....

Now you are telling your urges brother, there is one greatest security ISlam has given us that is ZAKAT......

My friend i have listened to all Economists who are worty of that title including Dr Qaisar Bangali, Muzzamil Aslam and Dr Ashfaq Hassan and all of them have said that the time and resources they got, they could'nt have presented better budget than that......

Now kindly Don't be emotional and be perspicacious enough to get the point and nonchalant enough to justify your point placidly......

Stay Blessed....

Development leads to employment and increase in GDP... This was my point.. Investment leads to development which results in employment.....

I also asked you whether the western countries and Malaysia, Turkey, UAE ; religious?

Where is system of zakat? You are in fools paradise.. Talking about the things which don't exist in our economic system. Extremists like you, have destroyed the image of Islam.

You think yourself right and consider all others fool, so I can't make you understand ... Just keep your conservative mind with yourself. I don't want to comment any more on your conservative views .............

And do remember you are not the only Muslim here. So, don't try to hijack the Religion...

Bilal Hassan · #55 Saturday, June 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invincible

What an absurd view! There is no link between this Budget & our beautiful Religion. Our Economy is not an Interest-Free Economy; Will you try to understand it? Please stop dragging Islam into this debate.

You are tying to defend what is indefensible. Highlite their mistakes instead of hiding so that they wont repeat it in next Budget.

Cheers!

My friend i am referring to an individual act, i never have taken into account the whole budget or economy.....please see the detail in following para of mine.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja Gujral

Development leads to employment and increase in GDP... This was my point.. Investment leads to development which results in employment.....

I also asked you whether the western countries and Malaysia, Turkey, UAE ; religious?

Where is system of zakat? You are in fools paradise.. Talking about the things which don't exist in our economic system. Extremists like you, have destroyed the image of Islam.

You think yourself right and consider all others fool, so I can't make you understand ... Just keep your conservative mind with yourself. I don't want to comment any more on your conservative views .............

And do remember you are not the only Muslim here. So, don't try to hijack the Religion...

O bhai jan ap dono personal hona choren, and please do not try to be omniscient and giving your opinion the sanctimonious status.....please stop doing that this is so rubbish and childish.....

Coming to the point.....people were lamenting at not increasing the salaries (which now have been increased) and i asked them to be thankful to almighty ALLAH for his blessings and when you do that he will increase these blessings......And always ask for Barkat from ALLAH in your money and never ask for increment as with barkat little will be enough and without barkat a lot will be little.....

بسم الہ و علئ برکت الہ

This is the prayer that Hazoor SAW used to say before starting his meals and he has always asked for Barkat in his belongings and never asked for increment.....That was my point and you started raising hue and cry, before you broach a statement, it is very essential that you understand what is being said.....If someone wants to disagree then he would disagree with the sayings of Holy Prophet as this is not my personal opinion.....

As far as budget is concerned, we all can give very good suggestions.....we all can say that is to be done and that is not to be done, but it is always easier said than done.....Those who are responsible for making the budget know better what to do, people in Finance division and Planning Division are sagacious enough to decide what to do.....you can analyze but it would be better to let them do their job, if you think you can do better than they do then do hard work and get there......

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta

Dear laptops should be given to those who are web develpors so that they can earn. what is the logic to give it to the economics, statistics students etc.? agar deni hain to profesional internships deyn so that they can serve this nation in true sense.
what do you know about this S=Y-C?? Dear with meagre incomes consumption is always high. 20k salary main se ap kitna save kryn ge????? Study Keynes consumption theory. Saving increase with higher income and consumption increase with lower income. Ye to bachy ko bhi pata h k kharchy se kuch bacchy ga tu save ho ga....
according to Philips curve trade off between unemployment and infaltion is only possible in short run. according to lord Keynes in the long run this trade off is impossible as philips curve is vertical in long run due to the impact of Fiscal and Monetary policy...... Dear STAGFLATION is our problem.
Dear in Pakistan the already pissed off poor class is being targeted always. Indirect taxes are that we are paying since the inception of Pakistan. Why always us-the 90% population of Pakistan, why not the industrialists-the 10% ? If they really wanted to increase Revenue to cut deficit down then why did they decreased the corporate tax????? It is ridiculous that sacrifice they always want from poor people who are already ruined by the unemployment, inflation and low standards of living. What would you expect from service men who have been denied of balancing increment in salaries? Obviously they will be compelled to bribe or leave the jobs and go abroad.
Indirect taxes never lower the inflation dear correct your info. In Pakistan we are harmed by Cost Push inflation not by demand Pull inflation. Cost Push inflation arises as a result of increase in profits of entrepreneurs and they may cut down their production as a result. Moreover due to shortage of raw material etc production process will be obstructed, shortage of raw material will be caused by rising dearness as the capacity of small farmers to produce above subsistence level be hampered. There is a complete vicious circle of things haunting our economy.
And BTW tell me what is the real purpose of earning and producing??? Obviously its seeking welfare. If people won't get welfare and peace of mind how would they contribute to the economy????? Don't just rush behind the stupid capitalist theories entirely. Even Europe is admitting the fact that a bit of socialism is necessary for stability. Welfare of people is the ultimate goal of a welfare state. This is not 300 B.C. where rulers are the only citizens and subjects are slaves...... Please don't always fit Machiavellian theories unfittingly.

Oh My friend i must say that you are also considering yourself omniscient.....please get out of such euphoria that you know everything and others are just ignorant.....There is no an ignorant person than the one who considers him/herself omniscient.....So get out of that euphoria that only you know everything.....

Now coming to your point.....I think we are talking about Macroeconomics here so you must take into account the universal effect of the Income equation..... The Fiscal policy that targets the Taxes and other revenue sources is a tool that is used to achieve economic stability.....Taxes are essential to generate revenues and bridge the whooping gap of Fiscal Deficit.....

Now you are saying that we are hampered more by Cost Push Inflation and not by Demand Pull inflation, now you see that if we do not generate more revenue and salaries increment would widen the fiscal deficit, that gap would be bridged by one tool that is Deficit Financing, the more money given in the hands of people would make them demand more, Keynes theory of Liquidity preference says that all these motives for what people prefer to keep money with them are those that would create demand pull inflation.....

You are again asking me not to discuss these theories and feel the pinch of people that they are suffering from, dear i would say that the purpose of Positive/Analytical economics is just to analyze the economic theories not to become emotional.....So there is no place for emotions in economics.....

P.S.....It is a very humble request that never try influence other person by saying you don't know anything, people use that tactics when actually they don't know anything.....So my dear friend if you want to make progress in something, follow the rule of Skepticism, doubt your capabilities and knowledge because when you start thinking that you know everything, the door to further progress closes.....I hope you would take into account that request of mine.....

sabahatbhutta · #56 Sunday, June 16, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan

[B]Oh My friend i must say that you are also considering yourself omniscient.....please get out of such euphoria that you know everything and others are just ignorant.....There is no an ignorant person than the one who considers him/herself omniscient.....So get out of that euphoria that only you know everything.....

Now coming to your point.....I think we are talking about Macroeconomics here so you must take into account the universal effect of the Income equation..... The Fiscal policy that targets the Taxes and other revenue sources is a tool that is used to achieve economic stability.....Taxes are essential to generate revenues and bridge the whooping gap of Fiscal Deficit.....

Now you are saying that we are hampered more by Cost Push Inflation and not by Demand Pull inflation, now you see that if we do not generate more revenue and salaries increment would widen the fiscal deficit, that gap would be bridged by one tool that is Deficit Financing, the more money given in the hands of people would make them demand more, Keynes theory of Liquidity preference says that all these motives for what people prefer to keep money with them are those that would create demand pull inflation.....

You are again asking me not to discuss these theories and feel the pinch of people that they are suffering from, dear i would say that the purpose of Positive/Analytical economics is just to analyze the economic theories not to become emotional.....So there is no place for emotions in economics.....[/B]

P.S.....It is a very humble request that never try influence other person by saying you don't know anything, people use that tactics when actually they don't know anything.....So my dear friend if you want to make progress in something, follow the rule of Skepticism, doubt your capabilities and knowledge because when you start thinking that you know everything, the door to further progress closes.....I hope you would take into account that request of mine.....

Where did I say I am omniscient?
Yes I agree taxes are essential to bridge the gap to overcome fiscal deficit I never denied. But where its written that fiscal deficit can only be overcome by Indirect taxes??? You did not reply to my query that why only Indirect taxes??? Why not Direct taxes??????
Mention of Liquidity preference theory is irrelevant here. People need increment in salaries not to keep money with them but to improve standard of living, meet both ends in this rising inflation and to save for investment which is the driving force for economy.
There is one other branch of economics namely development economics. Positive/analytical economics does not close the doors of welfare and development economics. Dear in Pakistan we need the solutions of problems not just a heating debate. Emotions does play important role in human behaviour and Economics is indeed the study of human behaviour.

There is a humble request from my side also. Please don't get biased for the love of a political party to the extent that you close your eyes on reality.

Amna · #57 Sunday, June 16, 2013

@ all

Fate of this thread in your hands. Better to mend your way of discussion . You should post in a way that is respectful of others .

Flaming each other in any way will not be tolerated any more.

tazimchaudhary · #58 Sunday, June 16, 2013

GTS is increased up 17% means more inflation for poor subjects. but there is no tax on agricultural income again.these landlords are not going to change the Pakistan.

Asad Naqvi · #59 Sunday, June 16, 2013

Bilal bhai i read all comments of your

Whenever we will no work hard then how we can except to change the some thing , we should saw ownself , what we r doing if we want to see that the revoulation in Iran ? Iran had a low economy but now ..............
We should work hard.

Bilal Hassan · #60 Sunday, June 16, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta

Where did I say I am omniscient?
Yes I agree taxes are essential to bridge the gap to overcome fiscal deficit I never denied. But where its written that fiscal deficit can only be overcome by Indirect taxes??? You did not reply to my query that why only Indirect taxes??? Why not Direct taxes??????
Mention of Liquidity preference theory is irrelevant here. People need increment in salaries not to keep money with them but to improve standard of living, meet both ends in this rising inflation and to save for investment which is the driving force for economy.
There is one other branch of economics namely development economics. Positive/analytical economics does not close the doors of welfare and development economics. Dear in Pakistan we need the solutions of problems not just a heating debate. Emotions does play important role in human behaviour and Economics is indeed the study of human behaviour.

There is a humble request from my side also. Please don't get biased for the love of a political party to the extent that you close your eyes on reality.

First of all my friend i am not being biased for a political party here.....PML (N) does not give us anything, nor do we ask for anything from them.....
Direct taxes must have been imposed particularly agri tax was essential in this regard.....but only Direct tax cannot be a panacea because the revenues generated by Direct tax won't suffice to decrease the fiscal deficit, so Indirect taxes were essential to be imposed.....

As far as Keynesian Theory of Liquidity preference is concerned, people like to keep money with them to meet their daily needs which is mostly based on commodities, and commodities form a major part of overall Demand so i referred to it in the context of Demand pull inflation......The Developmental Economics does exist but here we were just Analyzing the budget which is the part of Analytical/Positive Economics.....We are not concerned here about the betterment of people here which comes under the umbrella of Developmental Economics.....

P.S.....I think it is in human instincts that we do not give up even we acquiesce, this is called ego and paranoism, so we keep harping on the same string.....let us end this discussion here.....I would like to apologize to all for everything, we do the discussions here but we must not keep any grudge for anyone in heart, all are respectable for me.....and always consider others as capable as you are, and must not get euphoric.....Stay Blessed....

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The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Invincible For This Useful Post:
Hope of success (Monday, June 17, 2013), isha saeed (Saturday, June 15, 2013), kiyani (Sunday, June 16, 2013), Raja Gujral (Saturday, June 15, 2013)

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sabahatbhutta For This Useful Post:
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