Please don't try to pass off your personal opinion as fact.

Brother the delusion is that either Pakistan or India can capture more land then they already have. They can't. I'm well aware of the water problem, but it is a folly to think that India will cede any territory.


Current law and order problems are also related to actions of former dictators. It was Musharraf who joined the US war on terror. Similarly, MQM was created by Zia, as were the Taliban and other extremist groups.

I'm all for using force, if necessary to maintain law and order. Remember however, my friend that the Balochistan issue escalated during Musharraf's rule. He too was a dictator.

I feel that you are in favor of a policy of confrontation with India. You may disagree with me, but I think that Pakistan is no longer in a position to maintain a hostile stance towards India. In any case, friendship and peace with India will be far more beneficial.

Dear, the Afghan Mujahideen who were combating Soviet forces in Afghanistan were not a party to any of the Geneva Accords of 1988; withdrawing Soviet forces were indeed attacked and suffered 523 KIA whereas the loss on Mujahideen was 1200 martyrs. Mujahideen were trained and equipped for guerilla warfare only and I don't think Zia would have ever sent regular Pakistani Army to chase "retreating Soviets". I think you exaggerated a bit claiming Mujahideen could have "chased retreating Soviet Army" and gained "territories" in the process , if Zia was indeed planning such a move, it would have resulted in severe repercussions, good thing Master Blaster Zia couldn't carry out such plans and Allah gave sense to later governments . Don't forget the Soviets were never defeated militarily, they were defeated politically and their economy couldn't sustain prolonged conflict.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Dear members

Please be careful with your words selection. A better word selection could be used to convey the same message but within the respect. Pointing at members is considered personal attack and past experiences show that personal attacks cause threads to close and discussion might land nowhere.

People conveniently ignore this fact, preferring to believe that the Mujahideen crushed the Soviet Army, forcing them to retreat. We would do well to study the post WW2 Soviet economy.

@mechrose37 , dear my vision alright , i am not spokesperson of Zia , but was not as bad you people claim him to be . What do you thing Hanging a person is Calmer or soothing him tied to a pole , or what about gassing a person like a rat is it much better . Once plz Read about what Punishment itself is and what ends it should achieve believe me you will get our answer .

IF you really want to get to some conclusion plz come up with concrete argument not just that you think like that , i have posted earlier in little detail . come-up with pertinent question . and plz there no need to show attitude and pedantry (,lift yourself from petty alignments and let the scales fell from your eyes)

This is the true fact that as a nation we dont accept the sacrifices rendered by the great leaders in the history of world. Public execution is considered a crime these days. Laws are meant to protect the cruel. Presidential immunity is there so that a corrupt president can be protect under it. Zia literally did great to this nation. The history is there, one must6 study it and come up with logical reasoning. Mechrose, your comments truly depict you hatred towards Zia, which doesnt seem logical. You are against him without any strong reasons that clearly show discrimination. its been like 25 years of ZIA's death but what leaders did after his death? Today pakistan has been crippled by more problems and issues.

Dont be so ungrateful to someone who took every step to protect the sacred boundaries of this country. you are defaming him on this forum! I am against his defamation. What role you have played now, what greatness you did to this nation?

ALLAH ne on ke aanko aur kaano pe parde laga diye he or wo na sus sakte he na realities ko dekh sakte he.

ALLAH rubul izzat farmata he ke jo os dunya se chalaya jaye logo ko nahi chahye ke os ke bare ma koi ghalat baten kare. You even dont obey the orders of allah.

Protect the sacred boundaries of this country? Due to the culture of terrorism he nurtured, we have all but lost control of our border areas.

Hassan, i would truly appreciate, if you would try avoiding confusing of two terms i.e Jihad and terrorism!

To you, fighting against the enemy is terrorism. To you, freedom fighters are terrorist. To you, fighting against america is terrorism. If, america attack any country, you appreciate it. if someone else tries to attack imperialist country, you condemn it.

One would consider it double standards.

Dear Sir,

Do not be swayed by emotions.I am neither on Zia's side,nor do I belong to Bhutto party.What I have written is truth,not defamation.And respectfully do I say,that supporters of Zia's tyrannical regime are indulging in a willful distortion of fact.No leader could come up to expectations after Zia;but wrongdoings of his successors do not become an excuse for his monstrous blunders.But no leader after and before him exploited religion so shamelessly to further his own nefarious designs,and no leader after him shook the foundations of our society so terribly.Afghan war was not a Jihad;it was a proxy war fought by Mullah and Military for their own advantage,not for Pakistan.Federation was weekend.The beasts of sectarianism and religious hatred and obscurantism were let loose on the nation.Cartels and Mafia dons were unchained.While a selected few got immense riches out of the war,the country sank in deep vale of tears,turmoil and totalitarianism.Did you ever hear the very names of religious killings,Kalashnikov or heroin prior to zia's rule.

His decade was the decade of darkness,decadence,depredation,devastation and degeneration.This country is still buried deep under the avalanche of Zia's misrule and mismanagement.
What wrong have I done if I have presented my point of view in mild and respectful language ? And my existence has been terribly shaken to see learned people,not students of monasteries, defending a whimsical and capricious despot.Where are those enlightened songs of egalitarianism,freedom of expression and thought,democracy ?

All the members who are taking part in this discussion were born in the Zia era. Zia.Ul.Haq was Pakistan's Chief of army staff, if anyone had any concern about the country's security then it was Zia. Politicians lacked the far sight to think beyond their personal concerns. We must be grateful to Zia for having provided stability to Pakistan for 11 years. Had he lived till today Pakistan would have been a developed country.
The PPP governments have been doing all this propaganda against Zia as if he created all this mess. Zia led Pakistan towards a nuclear program, kept it secret from America. History would honor Zia as a man of crisis.

As far as floggings are concerned then Holy Quran suggests those punishments, may i ask how many members would call these punishments wrong now?

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