A republican government is slow to move, yet once in motion it's momentum becomes irresistible.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

try to understand this quotation................. one who is in favor of dictatorship

Let another zia be here and we are doomed forever.He shattered moral foundations of our society and disturbed the social fabric.He was incarnation of Caligula,Nero,Yezid,Nimrud and Firoun .May Allah save us from such satans.

And zia was too fool of a man to understand Michaevelli.

Well well and well. . . . Unki yaad ayi unke jaane k baad. . . You reserve all of your rights as per your comment and it's duty of ours to make arguement without being biased. And arguemnts based on facts and figures only. . .No philosophical comments . . Zia was good in some persprective but in most of them he really lag behind. . . such as sectarianism was at it peak during his regime, and even on jumma prayers Moulvi's used to pass comments against one anothers sect openly. . . With due appology it is one of the thing which haven't come to an end yet. . Zia wasn't a secular one and may be this would have become reason for the sectarianism . . . His policies were good but on other hand his policy makers weren't upto the mark. . He trespassed 7 of his collegues and became Chief and this favor was given by Z.A Bhutto himself. ANd may be it was one of his mistake. . which lead him to death sentence. . Their were many confrontations were taking place under hius nose but he did not took any safety measures himself . . And the thing which lead him towards the death was blind trust over U.S . . . It's an old american policy that the person who start falling from their standards they show him the path towards death. . No doubt our country was flourishing under the flag of Dictatorship, but i would not agree here with your thoughts regarding him. . I think he gave rise to barbarism "it's my personal opinon" though. . Well you think in your own way and i appreciate your spirit that you are favoring Dictatorship during Democracry. .

The light which shines only in palaces
Burns up the joy of the people in the shadows
Derives its strength from others’ weakness
That kind of system,
like dawn without light
I refuse to acknowledge,
I refuse to accept (Main nahin manta. . )

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Dekha hai aino'n ko paseene se tarba tar. . .
Ya Rab! haqeeqato'n se koi aashna na ho. . .

we need ruler who have power/authority like zia-ul-haq -without centralization of power nation can not be stable -but he himself shouldn't be like zia-ul-haq. though we shouldn't talk about deceased but we have to because he is history -in my opinion he used religion instead of implementing promise of islamisation. by the way, as far as i have sensed the situation he treated people cruelly only to save his throne not for cleansing of nation.

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hazrat umer (r.a)
"kam bolna hikmat, kam khana sihat aur kam sona ibadat hai"

Zia ul haq was a great leader. If he supported US in their plans to defeat Russia, then what leaders of today are doing? arent they supporting US?

I think the people of Pakistan cannot be controlled with such kind of civilian government, who are only busy in plundering with the wealth of Nation. Shallow water righly pointed out that this mess can only be controlled by a person like him. And someone like him can also be elected democratically

Leave uniform, stand in elections and control the things

Compare statistically Zia's regime with other and you will come to know the things!

There is no problem in supporting the US as long as Pakistan isn't harmed in the process. Anyways:

1) He was a LIAR: Promised to call elections and didn't
2) He was power hungry: Banned political parties. Got Supreme Court to declare all his parties valid.
3) He created MQM, cause of violence in Karachi.
4) Started the Taliban and the proxy culture. Due to his actions, a second Afghan was inevitable. People are still dying due to him.
5) Lay the basis for sectarian violence.
6) Was an enemy of women.
7) Last, but not the least, he was an enemy of Islam. Anyone who uses Islam only for personal gain like he did is a enemy of Islam.




Pakistan has been controlled by dictators for half of its history. What have they done?

You are talking like all other leaders are angels. The current leaders are the biggest liars. if he was power hungry, other leaders are wealth hungry.

at least he din't ridicule judiciary.

Why the rights of Muhajir was not recognized? that was the best decision at that times to create MQM, coz all other pakistani's were not accepting mohajirs as pakistanis.


Regarding the Afg-Russia war, that was needed and again was a good decision. If you still not accepting, than why Musharraf supported US in afghanistan war? do you remember the Bush comments? either you are with us or against us?

Enemy of women? How come you can say like that, quoting 1 or 2 examples ain't sufficient and if that too are out of reference.

Lay the basis for sectarian violence ? Sectarian violence existed in days of Iqbal and sir syed ahmed khan, please sir read some history. If he is responsible than its been more than decade that he he left us, why the current government failed in curbing the violence?

As i have already mentioned that please go for statistics..

I have read all the above posts maybe some of us have some blurred notions.

1. The Afghan War and the Afghan policy was not a joke . At the Time of soviet invasion 1979 . Iran had it Khumeni regime in place and soviet union was facing a drought in the Russian Steppes , Soviet Union needed an outlet , India had close ties with the soviet union ( read a little bit history , all resolution on Kashmir during that era and later were blocked by USSR ) , most of the military equipment used by India is still Russian ( from where did India get the Atomic Bomb Technology ????? ) , Had the soviet union established hold on Afghanistan -which it did they were at the border with Pakistan - Imagine the situation of Pakistan at that time , there was also a wave of terrorist attacks in Pakistan at that time specially in NWFP and other parts . we had to fight that war at all costs , and with-out the Tribes and helping people in Afghanistan we would have never been successful as we were unable to take soviet union head on with direct military engagement . so we took the Americans help , Zia was much better in that , then the stupid Musharraf .

2. India was very well tackled by Zia , India was planning an attack on Pakistan under Ragiv Gandis government , USSR was in Afgahanistan at that time ( read about his UN-announced visit to India to watch a cricked match and what discussion went on with Ragiv Gandhi ) , Zia Sported the Khalistan Movement in India and India was kept at bay meddled in it's own problems . The movement could have been made successful , unfortunately zia was assassinated . The Armed Revolt in Kashmir also stared at that time , we could have got Kashmir had we fully supported the Khalistan movement ( which was genuine we did not create it -read about Sant Karnail Singh Bindra walla - ) , This a great moment had Zia lived to Cash it out , because the later government's neither had the courage and nor the policy to Squeeze India a bit .

3. Zia dismissed the Junajo Goverment because Junajo fell out of line with him on Geneva Accords and decided on his own to sign it . What the Exact Zia policy was to Let the Afghan fighter chase the USSR Army and Claim the Area on the Retreat of the Soviet Army . Eventually which might have led to a confederation of Muslim States ( look at the Map ) . This was the Zia design for which he had to be assassinated . The U.S wanted a defeated soviet union not another middle power in the wake of it .

4. on the Domestic Politics , I cant say much but on the point of Rule of law he was no bad at all . During Zia's Regime the sentence for Rape/un-marital sex was Death , and the law was in forced properly . I personally know an example of that , the man was genuinely jailed and he would have been hanged had there been a change in government . and to people who are shouting about the people sentenced for rape ( isn't it a crime that should be punished and with current situation of our society with UN-marital sex rampant , what would be the number now if the law is in-forced properly , Even the U.S and U.K government officially do not indorse it ). There was also a famous incident where a number of bureaucrats were publicly flogged and dismissed , they were found in the company of prostitutes and drinking etc ( Rang ralian manatay huya pakray gaye thay ) , if you ask some journalist from that time he can give reference to the exact incident , later they were re-instated by the Banazir government .I also happened to meet one of them- a very good corrupt person .

5. It was mistake to create MQM , a militan group which is more then happy to take this country down any time but Murtaza Bhutto was also hijacking planes and Sindhis were killing Muhajirs the siutation was opposite at that time as to what is going on in Karachi now .

6. ZA Bhutto was a cunning man he would have taken this country to some place had he stayed in power . People like ZA Bhutto , Anwar Sadat , Shah of Iran , Shah Faisal of Saudi Arabia and lately dear old Qadafi etc , All of these people were part of Oil Embargo of 1967 and other policies adopted against the west ( also read about Carlos the Famous killer , what was his agenda and what work he did for the Arab's ) . After the Debacle of Dhaka ZA Bhutto changed the policy and started to look towards USSR , the Steal Mill of Karachi was gift from USSR . for which he was taken out of the way .

Both Zia and ZA Bhutto were great men and loyal there country both were not corrupt , Both had vision for there country but Sadly both were not good politician's .

Politics is the Game for a cunning Beguiling Fox not for straight upright men .

The current system of democracy or Kamino-cracy which we have will never yield any-thing for us. because it is not suited to us , with people of multiple diaspora and divergent interests , all they can have is there own interests but not a national interest . for progress we need a coherent and directional system . The Chinese are a great example with there centralized control and national policy ( the Biggest fear of China is not a slow economy but a social disorder because without strict control no one can manage 1.5 billion people and it would be bloody mess -which we are having in out country with every one talking about himself and not about the country) .

In the End we need someone to manage this mess . for a couple of year Zia would be good , clean up this mess and what he himself left and then go back to his grave and we will all say May ALLAH be peace with him .

Wah, An Afghan Mujahideen take over of Soviet Union with so much ease would have been awesome man, I am beginning to imagine veiled Russian women and Taliban flogging them . Zia was a genius indeed, but only if he was allowed to carry out his plans .

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

He got 10 years "to carry out his plans". How much more time did he need?

Forcing the SC to declare all your actions valid is not ridiculing the judiciary?

My dear sir, the situation of Karachi is not hidden from any of us.


As I said, I'm not against supporting the US as long as Pakistan's interests are not hurt in the process. But our own creation, the Taliban are still hounding us.

What is "out of reference"? And dear, I can quote many more examples, but I don't want this thread to turn into a woman rights thread. Lets start a separate thread to discuss Zia and women.

My dear sir, sectarian violence has existed since the earliest days of Islam, but it really escalated in Zia's era. Please read some history yourself.